Finished: 11 PM Thu 08 Oct 15 UTC
optably cutlips
2 days /phase
Pot: 215 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by thorfi (1023 D)
07 Oct 15 UTC Hi, thanks all, good game.

@guak Nice try, that probably could have been a 3 way draw. I know them feels.
07 Oct 15 UTC I don{t think there are enough curses on the world to describe how I felt about your play Scuba Dan.

@thorfi: thx, well played
07 Oct 15 UTC @ScubaDan: You may wish to look up some articles on Diplomacy and Stalemate lines. I really shouldn't have been let into Munich then - I didn't expect to be, but thought I'd give it a shot. And if you wanted a 2-way, you'd need to wait and see if I backed off out of the med to let you eliminate France.
07 Oct 15 UTC Play a few games of England vs turkey on vdiplomacy.com and you learn the lines quickly.
07 Oct 15 UTC Anyway, when Austria did not play I felt we should cancel. No one else did, but this gave turkey and Russia a big advantage. I prepared for the fight, but then France stopped me from taking Trieste, crippling my chances. I was so outraged by this move I decided to dash myself on the rocks of southern France. Hence my pathetic defence against yellow.
07 Oct 15 UTC Gg thorfi
07 Oct 15 UTC @Tantrum Oo, nice one. That certainly would do it.
07 Oct 15 UTC @Tantrum And yeah, early game NMRs are always controversial. I'm generally on the side of never click cancel (even when I'm not the one benefiting), but I understand why people do.
07 Oct 15 UTC @guak: Umm, is that a compliment?

@thorfi: I'm sorry, I don't understand; why would you have wanted a 2-way when you were so close to winning? I never thought you would back-off with only a few SC's to go...
07 Oct 15 UTC @Tantrum: please forgive my noob status, but what makes vdiplomacy different other than they have more maps? Why would that be different than playing on here?
07 Oct 15 UTC Scubadan... they have a 2-player variant that is just England vs turkey. It helped me a lot with nailing down the stalemate lines around Munich and Marseilles.
07 Oct 15 UTC @Scubadan What I mean is this:

1. You should have defended Munich and Berlin correctly, as they are on the "western" side of a well known stalemate line (which means there are orders where you could have prevented me from taking Munich or Berlin regardless of what I ordered). Ruh & Bur Support Mun to hold, Kiel S Ber to hold, basically. Nothing I can order with any possible set of units bordering those territories would have broken through.

2. *If* you had done that, I would definitely still be rushing the Mediterranean to try and find my 18th SC for victory... but again down there, if you supported France (@guak) correctly, between you it would have been easy to prevent me taking that all important 18th SC.

3. After *that* - there is actually plenty of room in the Mediterranean for me to back off to a more easterly stalemate line position where *I* can hold 17 SCs regardless of what you do, leaving you room to eliminate france for your own 17SCs.

I may not have chosen to go to step 3 - @guak played well, I may simply have chosen to click draw after step 2.

Not guaranteed either way, I think I have the right units to hold a safe stalemate line with plenty of room, but I haven't analysed in detail, and the answer to that question determines whether I'd give it a go.

Here's a long list of quite old but still perfectly relevant articles on the topic: :-)

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/stalemate.htm
08 Oct 15 UTC 2. EngC S MAO, Gas S Mar, Por S Spa, by the way, is that western mediterranean stalemate line order set. There's no set of orders that lets me break through that.

For 3, I would have backed off so I was in Tun, Ion, Nap, Rom, Tus, Ven, Tyr, Tri, I *think* that's a line (I'd have to verify for sure which I'm not going to bother doing just for this EOG), and it's easterly enough to give you room to actually eliminate France without risking me jumping in and breaking the line (again with the I'm not bothering with a full analysis, but I am fairly sure that's the case).
08 Oct 15 UTC 3. Oops. Tun + Ion is not a line, I'd have to occupy Tys, but I can force that once it becomes necessary.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
thorfi (1023 D)
Won. Bet: 25 D, won: 215 D
19 supply-centers, 17 units
England
ScubaDan (490 D)
Survived. Bet: 25 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
France
guak (3381 D)
Survived. Bet: 25 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Italy
Tantrum (4185 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
Germany
OldTsar (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
Austria
jason4747 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 3 D
Russia
Imperitor (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 21 D
Civil Disorders
Sponson (100 D)Russia (Spring, 1904) with 6 centres.
Imperitor (100 D)Russia (Spring, 1908) with 1 centres.
U5uRPeR (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1901) with 3 centres.
Hickelmire (100 D)Austria (Spring, 1902) with 3 centres.
kingme384 (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1903) with 1 centres.
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages