Finished: 08 AM Wed 29 Oct 14 UTC
Standard-12
1 day /phase
Pot: 469 D - Spring, 1917, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1902: THE PANTHER IS COMING
25 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1902: LIVE IN FEAR
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Now that you're all against me I'll make an offer to the world. The first one of you that stabs another will gain complete immunity from me.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Interesting idea, but not my style; sorry.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: We shall see if the others feel the same, this isn't winner take all so my partner in victory could easily gain over 100 points.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I think you put the offer from the wrong perspective, but it's ok for me...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Another thing... who decides to stab someone only to get your immunity, he would probably stab you as well later; have in mind that...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Not necessarily, it is possible for me to hit 18 while one other is at 11-14.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I am talking about an attitude; someone who is ready to stab one ally, will easier stab the other ally later. I just don't do that - ever, so my allies can sleep well.
I mean, it's the matter of the stomach feeling; I think my stomach is the most important thing in the world, so I never do something which could make any unpleasant feeling in it; neither in the real life, not in the games. So, I am maximally fair towards my allies not because of them, but because my stomach. And I am really proud of my over thousand points made without single undeserved stab. :o)
On the other side, someone who doesn't have sensitive stomach can stab anybody - including you, anytime including soon...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I just don't understand why that makes it a worse proposition for them. Either they don't stab me and take an easy second or they do and maybe snag first.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Or are you just trying to convince them you're such a nice guy that they don't need to worry about you? And on the subject of undeserved stabs I always explained my intentions to you so I'm not sure what I've done to deserve your aggression.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: It's not aggression; it's an explanation of my perspective.
By the way, I don't complain about you at all; we cooperated pretty well; I even like your campaign - it is interesting idea to announce something like this on the global.
So, it wasn't about you; it was about me, because I had an impression that you didn't understand what I told you..
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I think I understand what you mean. By aggression I didn't mean your words, but your moves to Mid-Atlantic and Gascony.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Oh, that?... Aggression is maybe too strong word; it is more a careful move that could bring me some benefits in the case you want to attack me, and I definitely have reasons to think that you are going to. You insist on taking Tyrolia, don't answer to my questions regarding Turkey... you know, such little signals...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I had told you I was going to take Tyrolia a while ago. It is necesary to break the stalemate line with Austria. I didn't explain my interaction with Turkey because I assumed it was self evident.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: And I told you that I didn't like the idea to have anybody in Tyrolia...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a violation of our agreement. I couldn't even attack Venice from Tyrolia with support.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: How would you categorize your move there - after I told you that I would appreciate if you don't do that?...
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: We're not the same player. That's not how alliances work. In the same way, your move supported by Austria can only be taken as an alliance against me. Determining whether you are a backstabber is irrelevant though. I am talking to the group as a whole and ay of you can still join me (except England).
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: True.
06 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Collaborating does not mean a marriage. I didn't directly help germany. Neither did he. But, when I survived against Austria, I helped him indirectly somehow. Does it mean I want Germany to hold 18 SC's? Not really.

So, now, I want Italy to hold his positions, even though Italy seldom spoke to me and kept silent while I was trying to survive against austria. So, at the end of the day, it could be "categorized" as opportunistic, such as a backstab. I fail to recognize any difference.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: The difference is that I had an agreement with the previous Franz Joseph, so I couldn't have helped you, Sultan, could I?
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Philosophing a bit more, I would say you had an agreement with him because it was opportune. So you did not talk to me. And now you do talk, because you worry about Germany. So it is not a big deal if anyone of us decide to attack each other when it becomes opportune. I don't see much difference. Besides, we never swore loyalty to each other, so I believe I can attack anyone I want here and my stomach will be ok with that. I am pretty much sure that what keeps me alive here is that my death is not convenient to my neighbours at the moment. And I will not attack your SCs because it is not convenient now. But I didnt and will not declare any immunity to you till the end. That would hurt my stomach.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Ok, everyone has the own stomach-principles. :o)
By the way, I don't remember that I haven't communicated with you; actually I hold communication very important in this game (and wider; I'm linguist).
Regarding opportunism, I really don't see what's opportune if somebody respect the word he has given to somebody. And, regarding loyalty, I think that everybody should keep his word, but of course that I am not too surprised when somebody stab me here.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: If anyone wants a screencap of Italy promising me he would leave only 2 Fleets out west, pm me your email and I will send it .
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I'm not even mad, that's what the game is about, but he is lying through his teeth when he says he would never break his word.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: And you know that based on?...
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Chat logs that I will send to anyone that wants to see.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: If you want I can send it to you too. :D
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I have it and I can't see any lying... And I have to say that I see the "tag" you paste on me pretty offensive...
You have a premise that I should be your ally even if you are not mine - what is pretty problematic as an idea. So, in the moment you decided to move to Tyrolia - knowing that I don't want that - you stopped to be my ally and I didn't have any obligation towards you. Where do you see my lying?
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Spring, 1904: Looks like England will be easy, if you want to get in on the Austria division you'll have to join soon. Me and Turkey should have him done in 2 years.
Fri 10 PM Autumn, 1904: We haven't talked in a while and we need to arrange what we will leave out west. I am fine leaving just my two armies there as long as you leave a Fleet to defend Marseilles instead of an army. I hope you can understand my desire for that, especially because 2 of my armies wouldn't be able to attack past 2 fleets in Spain and Marseilles anyway.
Fri 11 PM Autumn, 1904: You can take it as a deal.
Sat 04 PM Autumn, 1904: Oh yeah, I am moving to Tyrolia but it is just to apply pressure to both Vienna and Trieste.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: And Italy said moving to TYR was to work Germany and I shouldnt be worried. I have no problem with that comment. Working perceptions is part of the game. If I didnt doubt and move to protect or have some reason to keep him in line then I am the one who deserves to die. While I am somewhat enjoying this convo, it does seem a little petty. I have gotten outright lied to, ignored and convinced to make bad moves. That is the game. I have learned to trust, but verify and that a commitment is only as good as the conditions stay the same...which in this game doesnt happen. :) Roll with it.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Yeah, like I said this is what the game is about, but when he says "I don't backstab" and I have evidence to the contrary I'm going to show all of you, because it is in my interest for your alliance of 4 to be broken.
07 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: So, you don't want to read and it's ok - you, of course - don't need to.
09 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1906: I have to congratulate for this move, my dear Kaiser. Very nice move, indeed.
09 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Thank you, you remain a gentleman even in the heat of battle.
09 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: I love this game because of itself, so it is always nice when ANYBODY makes a beautiful move. :o)
09 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Everybody should respect the enemies, same as allies - if they deserve that.
10 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Now that I think about it, posting screenshots of chat is probably against the rules on this site, do any of you know?
10 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: (Hellenic Riot): In a non-anon full press game, it's not against the rules. Just unsporting.
10 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Thank you for the clarification.
14 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1908: Sorry, guys... I miss the move very rarely... Today my newborn baby went out from the hospital and the procedure lasted more than three hours, so I just couldn't come to computer earlier...
It will cost me pretty much - here, but I couldn't do anything better...
14 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1908: Luckily for you it doesn't really cost you anything. The three of you have already broken past my stalemate line. As long as Austria and Turkey don't realize that you winning is no different than me winning you should be fine.
14 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1908: Congrats on the kid!!
14 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1908: So if the purpose of your alliance is to prevent my solo victory we can draw right? I have voted draw because I understand I can't solo, but as you will see Italy will be unwilling to because he is positioned well to go for his solo.
15 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1908: Thank you. :o)
20 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1911: At this point since I obviously can't defend against all three of you I'm just going to defend against Austria and Turkey.
27 Oct 14 UTC Good game everyone. Germany played very good until it became a problem to him. That is something interesting we can learn from.
28 Oct 14 UTC This game was a disgrace, the only reason it happened is that this site divides points evenly for a draw. In a serious diplomacy game the goal is to win.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Italy
chass (1540 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 156 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
Austria
sanfi (1709 D)
Drawn. Bet: 83 D, won: 156 D
11 supply-centers, 10 units
Turkey
jvper (928 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 156 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Germany
TheDealer (153 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
France
timothee (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
England
Liam IV (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 36 D
Russia
TheGemmas (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Civil Disorders
Liam IV (100 D)England (Autumn, 1906) with 1 centres.
rm63 (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1904) with 6 centres.
timothee (100 D)France (Autumn, 1903) with 2 centres.
Brofert (100 D)England (Spring, 1902) with 3 centres.
TheGemmas (100 D)Russia (Spring, 1903) with 2 centres.
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages