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Finished: 01 PM Sun 12 Oct 14 UTC
1 day /phase
Pot: 441 D - Autumn, 1907, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
21 Sep 14 UTC Spring, 1901: no turkey??? anyone heard from Tur?
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: So, Turkey's a no show. I put up draw/cancel votes.
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: Same here. It seems to be endemic to my recent games, Turkey not showing up...
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: Looks like it hasn't effected all that much so far and he's still in decent shape, perhaps we should see if a replacement shows up before completely scrapping the game.
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: That is true, it is not bad yet. Hopefully a replacement shows up soon. If not, I also hope everyone considers casting their votes.
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: Does Turkey share in the draw now if we draw?
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: No. However, if someone were to step in for Turkey and vote before someone noticed and rescinded their vote, then yes.
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: I've just taken over Turkey.
22 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: Welcome new Turkey!
23 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1901: Can we ready the builds please :)
25 Sep 14 UTC Autumn, 1902: Ready?
28 Sep 14 UTC Spring, 1903: I'm terribly sorry if I messed up the game at all by missing a phase. Traveling today left me without internet access longer than I expected.
08 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: I definitely input a convoy from Armenia to Rumania.
08 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Odd.
09 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: You know I think what happened is I didn't put "via Convoy"
10 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1907: Friends. Its quite simple - France needs Turkey to stab Italy/Russia. If Turkey does so, France soloes and everyone loses. This is a winner takes all game - so it makes even less sense to gift someone a Solo.
OR France puts up the draw now and everyone draws!
France & Turkey - the decision is in your hands :)
Well played all.
10 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1907: Well, France and then Turkey. France, would you like to gift us with your analysis of the situation?
10 Oct 14 UTC France's analysis of the situation is that apparently I am trying for a solo here :) He is begging me to stab Italy. Haha. France, I admire your determination. But, your diplomatic efforts are destined to fail however. Please just draw this and end this quickly.
Anyway, lets play on for another turn if you insist.
United Anti-French Draw Alliance: Hold firm.
10 Oct 14 UTC Once he sees us fully demilitarize our borders he should give in.
10 Oct 14 UTC Suit yourself. If you guys fully demilitarize from each other like you claim then I'll accept it's a lost cause and accept the draw in the spring. Show me you're that 100% committed to it and not just bluffing and I'll have no choice but to give it in.
10 Oct 14 UTC I have no interest in taking on three united countries.
10 Oct 14 UTC Err.. Show me that you are 100% committed to what?? To a draw?? Whats there to bluff? Everyone has voted draw other than you. You can end this with a click of a button. Stop delaying and finish this.
10 Oct 14 UTC France is just going to delay and delay and delay and try and convince each of us that we should stab someone. 100 marks for persistence bro :)
10 Oct 14 UTC People put up unlikely to be accepted draws all the time they don't really want accepted, they just use it to try to manipulate people to their cause or to set somebody up for something. A full DMZ of each other's borders should be enough to prove which case this is. Do that and I'll accept it, no muss no fuss.

I find it interesting publicly you're pushing hard for the draw but privately you're heavily goading me for a scrap. This is already intriguing...
10 Oct 14 UTC Hahaha. Dude, honestly I respect you just for how hard you're trying in the face of impossible odds.
Of course votes are used to manipulate people to their cause. Except if EVERYBODY has voted and you have all the power in your hands - then there's no manipulation. Its simple - everyone wants to draw and the proof is that you control the trigger. If you want a draw - you can click draw. And it draws. So unless someone here is stupid, which isn't the case, no one is going to fall for your highly amusing logic.

Everyone: France first tried to convince me to hit Italy by saying that Italy entered late, doesnt deserve a draw and that we should 3-way draw instead by eliminating Italy.
That didn't work - so then he tried to make me insecure about Turkey by claiming that Turkey was going to attack me in Sevastopol right now so instead, I should attack Turkey to stop it from happening.
I'm assuming he has tried various variants with you guys as well.
Can we give him 3 cheers for never giving up?

Listen France - when there are 3 equal sized powers and 1 big power in a winner takes all game - its a very simple situation - breaking the status quo always gives the big power a chance to solo again.
The only 3 way draw I would even contemplate is one in which three of us defeat you completely and share the spoils.
IN fact, guys -do you guys want to do that?? Turkey, I will let you walk into Sevas and Moscow - and Italy and I can push forward and destroy France. We can make sure that at any point Turkey takes our home centers from behind so that we are all evenly spread in terms of total SCs at all times. Then we can destroy France and share a 3 way draw :D
10 Oct 14 UTC There's no secret, I've said itsly doesn't deaerve this to everybody including Italy himself and I feel that's accurate but it's really up to you guys. I see you're just trying to vilify me and putting a lot of effort into a smeer campaign. This is pretty much what I was waiting to see if it would happen, you don't want a draw at all you want this game to keep going and you want everybody united against a big target enemy.

So again, I dare you to DMZ against each other and keep your draw request up into the spring. Should be easy enough, really no need to have a never ending conversation about it. Either you want it or you don't.
10 Oct 14 UTC 1 round
10 Oct 14 UTC Deal?
10 Oct 14 UTC The only person who wants this game to keep continuing is the only person who's stopping this game from ending - i.e you.
10 Oct 14 UTC You can dare and double dare and plan and plot and spread rumours and lies all you want - you are the ONLY person desperately trying to continue this game. Fact.
10 Oct 14 UTC 1 round
10 Oct 14 UTC Why don't you ready the moves then rather than delaying even further to buy more desperate negotiating time :P
10 Oct 14 UTC 22 little hours..
10 Oct 14 UTC One big draw.
10 Oct 14 UTC So, I love how after I spent points I wasn't sure of getting back, points that I will not increase by a significant margin after a draw, to help a game back on its feet after an important power left, I somehow don't deserve to be in the draw. I think we can all agree that France is saying this only because he would easily solo if I hadn't joined.

I have not been approached with any offers from France, after I told him I wasn't planning to play second fiddle to him all the way to his win.

I am curious who is responsible for this manipulation that has been going on with the Draw button. Clearly it is not well structured manipulation. Well, except for France. France is just ridiculously hostile for no good reason.

As much as I would like France to die horribly and for us to share the spoils, there are few practical ways to do it. Russia letting Turkey past Sev is unheard of, for pretty good reasons. I guess I can imagine a Russia/England/Scandi Russia, a Italy/France/Iberia Italy, and a Turkey/Balkans/Austria Turkey, it would be hard to pull off with a resisting power and would take forever. The alliance would inevitably fall apart, and that would take even longer. Not worth it, in general.

This is not a smear campaign by me and Russia. This is me and Russia going public with a whole load of information and offers that are best expressed in Global.

As for your one round offer? It is not an offer, there is nothing to accept or refuse. It is at most, a statement of intent.
10 Oct 14 UTC Oh, by the way, no reason to wait that long, we can just ready the moves.
10 Oct 14 UTC Or, if you feel like it, and have diplomacy left to do, have fun. Delay a bit further. I'm playing other games, so I check the site anyway. Here I can at least have a bit of a laugh.
10 Oct 14 UTC Totally agree with italy
1) Totally respect for players who take over CDs and re-balance games at cost to themselves. They deserve draws more than the original players sometimes
2) Italy is right that a 3-way destruction of France would be unfeasible. I wasn't really being serious when I suggested it - it was more of a tactic to scare France and fool around :P
3) Too true about it not being an offer. France isn't offering - we are the one who are offering a draw - he is refusing the offer and forcing us to continue.
4) This is the longest public negotiation I have ever had :)
10 Oct 14 UTC I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't have joined the game if Italy were already being dismantled. I knew this game would still be interesting, and have played the early game a lot already, so this is a free spot half-way through! It's perfect for me.
10 Oct 14 UTC I'm hostile?

Would appreciate the courtesy of allowing me to finalization when I have a chance to look at the board on something bigger then my iPhone without being bagged on the entire time. I like to think we're all above nag diplomacy and can spare a little patience.
10 Oct 14 UTC You said I didn't deserve to be in the game and relentlessly attacked me. That seems pretty hostile. If you're on an iPhone I understand not being able to finalize yet. Sorry for the over the top parts, by the way.
10 Oct 14 UTC Difference of opinion isn't the same as being hostile, certainly not the intent anyways.

If you truly jumped in to save a game from being unfairly ended then cool, it just came across from my perspective a little opportunistic seeing a player jump into a game and the immediately campaign for and call for a draw. I've seen some players base their entire success out of cherry picking active games and just a turn off for me when that's the case. Again, not saying that's what you're doing but was just the initial suspicion.
10 Oct 14 UTC Well, I saw a game active, but then I realized that perhaps a draw was in my best interest. I recognize that it isn't and wasn't in yours, of course, but I did not intend to ruin this game. I am sorry for jumping into a game and calling for a draw instantly, but I only did it because I analyzed the situation as one in which a draw campaign was in the best interest of my country. It's not like I have a chance to a)exclude someone other than me b)solo win, so I decided to campaign for a draw. Apparently, everyone else feels similarly.
10 Oct 14 UTC Fair enough.
10 Oct 14 UTC If Turkey is ready I'll be able to finalize in the next hour or so.
10 Oct 14 UTC Thanks.
10 Oct 14 UTC I'm sorry we had a disagreement, France, but I really liked the game, or the part of it I played. I hope to play with all of you again in a different game someday.
11 Oct 14 UTC Great game guys. Great game. Cheers.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

VillageIdiot (6818 D)
Drawn. Bet: 45 D, won: 110 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Sh@dow (3512 D)
Drawn. Bet: 45 D, won: 110 D
9 supply-centers, 8 units
phil_a_s (0 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 91 D, won: 110 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
TheDealer (153 D)
Drawn. Bet: 35 D, won: 110 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Aircalibur (766 D)
Defeated. Bet: 45 D
schmittz (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 45 D
Defeated. Bet: 45 D
Civil Disorders
Tenacious Grip (155 D)Austria (Autumn, 1903) with 0 centres.
DrunkCat (100 D)Turkey (Autumn, 1901) with 3 centres.
conqueso (100 D)Italy (Spring, 1906) with 7 centres.
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