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Finished: 04 PM Thu 16 Jan 14 UTC
Private The king's dead
1 day /phase
Pot: 70 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
07 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: @Turkey - I believe that you could still hold a draw if you prevent either the Rebels or the traitor win, which would involve a draw with the traitor still alive.
07 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Yeah, if the traitor dies, it doesn't matter what happens to you, Turkey. The rebels still win, and you'll be forced to, by the rules of the game, give up all your centers.
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Good to know. Thank you for the clarification.
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: I guess if the traitor can kill the rebels then he wins and if the rebels can setup a stalemate line (or eliminate the traitor) they win.

This is one argument why the novels should be known by all but with the traitor identified as a knight so only he knows he is the traitor. Realistically, everyone would know a knight from a peasant.
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Sorry, I don't really see how that's an argument. Can you clarify? The problem is that if you know that all the knights are either knights or the traitor, and the king is the king, everyone else is a rebel. You know everyone's position already, save not knowing if a knight is either a knight or a traitor. Personally, I'm assigning roles for the new modern dip game, assuming enough people join. I think I'll just do the 1 king, 2 traitors, 3 knights 4 rebels straight up. The other option is this, which seems reasonable,
tell everyone in global who everyone else is. Everyone - however 1 traitor is said to be a knight and 1 is said to be a rebel. This way NOBODY except the traitors can feel secure. Please tell me what you think about that, or if you'd just prefer the straight up 1 2 3 4, or if you can explain why Russia's idea seems best, because I'm not seeing it right now. (Also tvrocks tell me if I have to do it a specific way, I didn't really FULLY read the forum post :)
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: I said in the forum post that there would be a small difference in the modern and American games, the modern is a 1144 game and the American is a 1234 game. so could you please assign it like that. also, I have an idea for a solution to the knight problem. in games like this where the king is defeated, all knights become traitors who are not informed of others personalities. sound good?
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: roles, not personalities
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: gg, thanks for the game.
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: Sounds good. Sorry, I'll do 1 traitor 1 king 4 knights 4 rebels. I don't really LOVE the knight idea, because then the knights are more or less fine with the king dying, but it works - at least for this game.
08 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1906: so, does somebody else want to join one of the two other 'the king is dead' games?
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: we won't inform someone until after it becomes a problem, I'm not sure if it will actually be the solution though.
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: What?
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: it might not be the solution. i'll try coming up with a better one
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: I don't actually understand what you're saying. We won't inform someone about what?
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: Nm...
10 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1907: lol
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1909: It's at times like this that I really wish there were a concede button
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1909: I know. I understand why there's not, because people might do it way to early rage quitting, but because of the way this game is set up, I'd agree with you - you're screwed
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: What are the rules here? Do I continue fighting until France is gone? Or do I have to forfeit my SCs now?
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: You're about to get broken open anyway, I doubt it makes much difference.
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Good game France. I assume you were the traitor, correct?
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Wow - just realized I left Tunis wide open (:
13 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: I hoped you would cover it and allow me through, but since I ran out out of SCs first it didn't matter.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: i think that the rebels have won...
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: The Evil Empire has fallen! Ewok dance party!
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: The rebels have indeed won, and next year they'll be free to take their 3-way draw
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Unless Anglo-Russia goes for a solo. Bwahahahaha!

j/k
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: So, EOGs?
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: I don't think there's much to say. The knights fought each other, meaning that the king died early so I didn't have enough time to make progress before my inevitably doomed stab to aim for a solo.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Thoughts on the variant? It was an interesting twist, and I enjoyed the certainty of knowing I could count on Germany, once he was identified as my fellow rebel. You don't get that much certainty in an ally often in Diplomacy
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: I found the fact that the knights who presumably trained together didn't know each other to be "unrealistic". I still think all nobles should be identified to each other so that only which one is the traitor is called into question.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: It's not about realism. It's a device to create uncertainty and give people a different motive in the game.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: I wouldn't like it if the knights knew who each knight was. It defeats the purpose of the game of finding out who your friends and enemies are. It also makes it somewhat unfair IMO, but that's not the point.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Can we write these EOGs on the Forum? I know the community was interested in the outcome of this game and our thoughts.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: i think this variant is fun, but i works better on the bigger maps where you have ten players.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1910: Kasimax - I agree with that entirely. The modern and American games are, I think, more interesting than this one turned out to be.
14 Jan 14 UTC Spring, 1911: Well, the knights have to protect the King where as the rebels can theoretically attack anyone who *isn't* attacking the king, so yeah, unfair. The knights can't likely fake being a rebel, but the rebels and the traitor can easily play like a knight until they see an opening.
14 Jan 14 UTC Spring, 1911: What were you, mendax? Knight or traitor?
14 Jan 14 UTC Spring, 1911: Cause gun is the other one as I was the second knight.
14 Jan 14 UTC Spring, 1911: I still think it's very fair with a 4 3 2 1 set-up.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1911: ...really England? Really?
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1911: Please draw after Turkey disbands.
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1911: Just for fun
14 Jan 14 UTC Autumn, 1911: haha maybe we got it all wrong and he's the traitor.
14 Jan 14 UTC I was indeed traitor.
14 Jan 14 UTC GG ALL THANKS FOR PLAYING
14 Jan 14 UTC There was no way Russia and Turkey could save Italy with Austria and Germany on two of three sides. This game was a foregone conclusion form the onset. Id' say in the future, the king must directly border at least one, if not both, knights. What if Austria had been the King and Italy the traitor while France and England were the knights. Do you really think they could have saved him from Turkey and Russia and Germany?
14 Jan 14 UTC that's why i'm saying that it is much more interesting on bigger maps.
15 Jan 14 UTC I tried informing you that Austria was a rebel. I made the modern map a 4,4,1,1, map to try fixing the problem draugnar. Good game anyway, I was doomed from the start.
15 Jan 14 UTC I personally wouldn't wan the rule, it would make it way to easy to figure out who the knights are, especially if they were England, turkey, or Italy. Anyway, congrats on the name, inform people of the win if you want, I don't care either way. Gg all

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
dipplayer2004 (1310 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
14 supply-centers, 12 units
Austria
hawkeye855 (5 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Germany
kasimax (243 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Italy
tvrocks (388 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
France
mendax (321 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Turkey
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Russia
Draugnar (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
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