Finished: 04 AM Fri 25 Sep 09 UTC
42 - Public Press
2 days /phase
Pot: 350 D - Autumn, 1910, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Pantalone (95 D (S))
05 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Well, to open up the conversation a little bit, France, how are you planning on moving forward?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: France to Germany - ....by moving to Vienna.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: " I love how no matter what, I seemed to get fucked in everyone's equations. *thumbs up* "

Welcome to the joy of playing Russia ;)
As consolation, I might say that England is in just about the same position
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: France to England - Cheer up, Perry! Not in my equation......
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: England to Turkey:
BS?
I thought that was a sane presentation of facts?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: France to England - In all fairness to Turkey, Perry (aside from his unparliamentary language), I could not quite follow all your strategic options, twists and turns either any more - perhaps you are over-analyzing things a bit....?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Perry6006, I do not believe I have whined or whimpered. I pointed out your stab to France, to make sure he agreed, before I cut the alliance. I did stab Russia, though I did not lie, just played on his assumptions. I find your play and words in this game to be fairly immature. You have succeeded in changing my opinion of you going forward. Only two others have done so, and each decided to publicly state they were going to CD on purpose for some reason or another.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: In fact, I do not believe I even spoke to Turkey, when you say I did. It was you who spoke to him. Perhaps your descriptions of me, have been more statements about yourself. You have felt persecuted and attacked this whole game, by everyone. You have accused France of having fleets in the north, when he did not. You have accused me of stabbing you, when I did not.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Leaving all other discussion & comments aside, I can at least promise to not go CD on this game.

A French play for a solo, or even a F/T 2 Way play. offers me better chances of survival, then a shaky alliance with Germany/Russia, where I would be ground to pieces between two hostile power blocks, sooner or later.

No more is really needed to be said on the matter, I think.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: You know, I thought about this a little bit, and then went back and checked. For all England's persecution, and how every plan excludes him...nearly every plan proposed has included him. No one has attacked England at all. He attacked me, and whines about it. Russia has been included in lots of people moving against him, and planning against him. In fact, Russia has good reason to complain, if just because of my actions supporting England against him. I didn't take offense originally to the whimpering statement, because I just took it as a strategy, but you actually believe the crap you are saying. How did you possibly get the wins you have England? Whine at everyone, and hope someone protects you till you can stab them?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: France or Turkey, do something so we can end this game. Russia I will help you get Moscow, if you make it there. Austria...well, you are just kind of dead after the CD and all.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Germany, might I remind you that the Turkish people have a history of the dark times of 1902, when our mother land was under an attack by the join Austrian and Russian forces. We Turks then worn the two nations that if they continue their aggression they will themselves suffer and this hold true so far, and we want it to continue to be true. If you attempt to help Russia into Moscow, expect that it will be attacked immediately. We will not launch an assault on German land (and we consider Moscow a German province now - and not the nicest:), but if we see a single Russian flag in Moscow we will burn it down.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: (excuse the many typos in the above, playing from a mobile device...)
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Russia, would you use Norway to support Sweden into Ska?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Russia - Actually, scratch that, let me think a bit longer.
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: I attacked you Turkey due to my alliance with Austria, I had every desire to work with you against the central powers orginally but it was them who agreed to an alliance with me first rather than yourself. Am I to continue to be punished for trying to stick to my word when many others have not?
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: You were much more arrogant back in 1902...
06 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1907: in 1902 I was focused on England who was attacking my northern front. If you look back i only made 1 msg from there to 1904 and that was to germany.

As I said, my only words to you before this was that I was sticking with Austira because of my alliance. Your picture of me in the beginning stages of this game are misguided
07 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: we are back to the 96 hour wait....
07 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: We will still be playing when 2010 comes around IRL ;)
07 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes, this is the most annoying game EVER. Always some player is idle.
07 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: It will be interesting to see who will take over that role after Austria ;)
08 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: I don't understand the thinking. Finalize, get the game closed, and move on. Why would you want to not make your last move? This makes me want to play only shorter games. I entered a 12 hour game after the first time someone started this slow playing. 12 hour games are a little bit too fast, but with these delays I am starting to think 2 days is too slow.
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Eng to France:
Hmm.. too bad about the F BRE here.
You are welcome into NWY, with my assistance, and I want to help you out for the Win, in exchange for a Survival for myself.

However, I do not want to yield LON & LVP to you at this point, which I risk if you move to ENG/NAO.
Bounce in ENG?
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: France and Turkey, I think you should take out both England and I.
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: neither of us is in a position to stop you, and if you two want you can go for a 2 way draw.
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Then it would be a 3 Way , with Russia also, I suppose ;)
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: guessing they could take out all 3 of us, without much problem. I gave Russia what I promised him...
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Of couse they can. They have 21 of 34 scs already. A joke only ;)
In a 350D WTA game, I would not play for the 2 way in this position
As F, I would consider my odds much better to scoop up all Points. The risk of being stabbed in the last move, is very big in WTA. All of a sudden , that 2 Way is a Defeat :/
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: well...then, they should leave Russia alive...
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: I'm trying to figure out the angle Germany has with suggesting I live :P In all honesty, im stumped. I do appreciate it of course, but I can't help but feel parnoid as well
09 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Russia, I am not attacking you.
09 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1908: Wow, we actually gaining speed here....
I am playing 10 games currently, but trying to cut back. I was thinking this would end the least quickly. Now , I am changing my mind..
09 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1908: France, would you use Munich to support Holland to Kiel? I will support Belgium to Holland using Ruhr. At worst, I will keep it, but still lose two supply centers. There is the possibility I will lose 3, in this case. England will also lose Lvp, and not gain one at Kiel, weakening us both.
10 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1908: France to Germany - Munich supports Holland to Kiel, as requested.
10 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1908: France, thank you.
10 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1908: Thanks Germany for the hold
11 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1909: France to Germany - I am not making a play for Holland at this time; just move in to secure it.
11 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1909: France to Turkey - Harvesting time....!
12 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: Looks like France will win in the end.
12 Oct 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: Good game everyone....
13 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1910: Well then.. By that move , France did indeed secure the 18th SC.
Good game!
Lots of communication, and even though we got an early CD, dedicated players ! Extra credit to Russia who did not give up on the game or quit.

I hope to write a small EOG before the game ends! Cheers & see you in a future game //Perry
13 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1910: ENGLAND EOG:
Game started out w Russia offering alliances & DMZ with all neighbours xpt me.
I took that as a DOW, and stated so, ending the note with "so be it", or some other offensive remark.
Even though we would have fought anyway, I think, it made Russia devote very much to his northern front,
including MOS-STP, STP-FIN and then F STPnc build..

F/G set out with very good relations from the start, obviously building an alliance.
I was set with a hostile R, a neutral France (who moved in to take advantage of the NMR Italian) and then Germany pulled a 2 fleet build in 1901..
making it impossible (imho) for England to work with him too..

Russia lost NWY/SWE, but then I had to choose to go after France (and get those 3 german fleets in my back) or go after Germany - I chose the later
(I tried to talk about a F/E/G alliance, but G was not interested - which is understandable)

Italy & Austria went down, but then something strange happened: F/T agreed not to fight.. While this was beneficial for France - I just could not
see the reason for Turkey to agree to this?? It would transform a 10SC Turkey with a guaranteed spot in a potential Draw - to a Turkey losing to a F solo??
I am very curious to the T reasoning here!

When Endgame was closing in, I thought the game was going to end in a G/T/F draw - that would mean certain elimination for me.
In order to force Turkey to attack France, I stated that I would be prepared to work for a French solo.
I hoped that this would provoke hostility between GT and F , in which - albeit a bit of a fools hope - I hoped that Germany would get killed, while
Turkey took down the Balkans and Italy. In this scenario, I was hoping to take 1-2 SC from Germany, getting me into the Draw.

But T/F never fought , and France just went away to score the Win.
Thank you all for the game! Hope someone else would like to share their thoughts!
Cheers & happy future gaming ! //Perry6006
13 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1910: France to all - Diplomacy is a combination of luck and skill.
In this game, I have had plenty of good luck: Germany being gracious enough to actually grant and give me Belgium in 1902; a nice Agreement with both England and Germany which nobody felt necessary to break; an opponent/target (Italy) who clearly was not very focused and came and went away (mostly the latter) all during this Game; two sets of rivals who became embraced in deadly stalemate lock-ups (England & Germany plus Turkey & Austria/Russia) preventing significant growth for any of them.

The skill part came into it too of course: I think I avoided (for a change!!) making any (major) mistakes; I kept all rivals on as friendly a relationship for as long as possible/necessary; I avoided making anyone angry or vindictive by avoiding the need for any (obvious) stabs or conspiracies, etc.

In summary, I feel this was 70% good luck and perhaps 30% skill factors involved, yet I have enjoyed this Game very much! (for obvious reasons - I also need to seriously upgrade my percentage of Games won, which is dismally low....)

Thanks to everyone and good luck in future Games!

p.s.: A special note to England re the mystery of Turkey and France not going for each other - I make no secret (it is plain to see on the Site anyway) of the fact that Kiv (Turkey) and I have played together in 3 previous Games (by sheer coincidence, I am sure, as we do not know each other as friends, colleagues, fellow students or anything like that) and each time we have participated in a Draw and have been allies, or at least not enemies during the actual play. I guess this creates some kind of (completely legal, as far as I am aware!!) bond between us, at least that is how I take it - untill Kiv started "talking to" Austria about ganging up against France, which scared (and disappointed) the Hell out of me!! That is why I "talked back" to Austria in a similar way and I guess Kiv realized he stood to lose more than to gain, by an all-out confrontation with me, not only in this Game, but in his future relationship with me as a player and perhaps also for the sake of his reputation, should we ever meet again in a new Game.....
13 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1910: France to England - If you retreat to Norway, I will keep bouncing for Edinburgh and so keep it English........
13 Oct 09 UTC Spring, 1910: .......by the bye: It ain't over until the Fat Lady sings............
13 Oct 09 UTC Germany -
I started the game getting a NAP with France. I maneuvered in such a way to get Russia to commit his forces in the wrong place, so that I could easily remove him from the game. This helped England as well, but I didn't worry too much about it. I figured after Russia was removed, I could hold off England from any attack, if not win the confrontation. England moved against me, and I had to turn to defend against that. I could not get France into any battles between us, but neither could England get Turkey into the fight. England proposed a western triple, which I found a fine idea. When he then attacked me, took a supply center and displaced both my fleets, I saw that it was a trick.

For the rest of the game, England would sit on my border attacking me, while I was locked in place defending myself. England would not negotiate or even consider negotiating. I hoped France would intercede, especially with England completely open to be removed, but saw he would use the situation to his advantage. I brought back Russia in order to hopefully break the deadlock, knowing it was probably too late with the state of things in the south.

After England's statements against me during my final attempt at diplomacy, I decided the game was over.
13 Oct 09 UTC I do wish Turkey had moved against me, when France was going to. I was hoping to get them into a draw, but I noticed I doomed Turkey when I supported Russia in place.
13 Oct 09 UTC England kind of runied the game for Germany and Russia, you had a chance to do a stalemate line....
13 Oct 09 UTC Wow - enjoyed that last one into Denmark! LOL - Nice looking Board, Kiv - almost all blue & yellow!! And all three final opponents survived, too.......

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
Pantalone (95 D (S))
Won. Bet: 50 D, won: 350 D
19 supply-centers, 17 units
Turkey
kiv (2788 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
12 supply-centers, 11 units
England
Perry6006 (5409 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Germany
Tantris (2469 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
1 supply-centers, 3 units
Russia
Raiju (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
1 supply-centers, 2 units
Austria
neogeo (105 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Italy
sockeye (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Civil Disorders
neogeo (105 D)Austria (Autumn, 1907) with 0 centres.
sockeye (100 D)Italy (Autumn, 1905) with 0 centres.
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