Finished: 04 PM Sat 11 May 13 UTC
Private The Battle for Florey, Take II
1 day /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1909, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Fwood (115 D)
01 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1906: Liverpool is yours. You took Portugal off me and Italy took Spain off me. I am still happy to arrange a truce.
02 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1906: There will be only war.
04 May 13 UTC Spring, 1907: why why why are you still fighting?! he's going to pick up 4 this turn and only lose one, meaning he's on 16. Two more and the game's over.
04 May 13 UTC Spring, 1907: Because Italy doesn't care about winning and when you play against weak people like that, the game is just boring.
04 May 13 UTC Spring, 1907: France the blame lies mainly with you. You make totally unrealistic demands for peace that no one is going to accept. In this game you need to be able to accept deals that aren't totally biased in your favour.
04 May 13 UTC Spring, 1907: But when Russia wins next turn the fairness of his deals is irrelevant! We should have teamed up earlier.
As it is, Russia will gain Lvp, Bel, Hol, Smy for definite while only losing Den. No doubt he has supported italy into Greece to allow him to take Serbia and Trieste/ Vienna as well, meaning he's on 18 and won. Sadly there's not much anyone can do except Italy, hopefully he sees the light.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: weak? the issue is with france. rather than an alliance with me you chose germany, poor choice due to the defensive play of germany.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: But you've just handed the victory to Russia as, unless you stop him, he wins this turn.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: He won't listen. As I said, he would rather bend over and let Russia in than let go of a grudge against me as I didn't support him into Germany. Supporting you into Germany would have achieved nothing for me since he was playing defensive and supporting himself.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: England, I asked for Spain/Portugal back which is completely reasonable seeing as you were wasting a fleet guarding it anyway. An gains from it were lost for you. However, if I had Iberia back, we could have actually stopped Russia. England and Italy, you were far too caught up in trying to screw me over to see the bigger picture. Now you've handed Russia the win.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well played Russia. I think you were the only person to take advantage of these squabbles to actually make major gains.
04 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: Germany, the problem is France has refused to turn around and support a concerted effort against Russia. And I agree with Italy, would you move East to block Russia just for France to walk in and take all your centres as you tried to hold a stalemate line? Blame France rather than anyone else.
05 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: Sorry, but this is a complete lie. I am hanging about South France because Italy refuses to leave my borders (which he has crossed). I am in no position to attempt any move into Germany.
05 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: Out of me, England and Italy, I am the only one who has not moved against Germany. England, if you think lying is going to save you against Russia, then please reconsider. How do you expect us to work effectively against Russia if you insist on trying to cause division between all of us? You're just as bad as Italy. You would rather lose and drag us down with you rather than put up a fight. Why don't you make it easier for Russia? Pull down your trousers and bend over.
05 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: The only reason Italy has had to enter France is because you refused to move your troops, preventing him from moving East. It was the same when I tried to get you to move against Russia before when you held Liverpool. All you seem to be interested in is having as many SCs as you can yourself and have no interest in the greater strategic game. Stop pissing round in the south and antagonizing Italy and actually help against Russia.
05 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: I have made my intentions clear: I want peace between us so we can actually mount some kind of attack together. "There will only be war" from Italy really isn't helping the cause. Italy is a back stabber and took Spain when I agreed to move out of our borders. When the game is over we can read the transcripts and you can see for yourself.
05 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1907: Draw anyone? Looks like a stalemate to me...
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: Italy, truce. Turn around and we can actually put up a decent fight against Russia.
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: Is that because you can't possibly hold Marseilles this turn, and you might lose Spain too?
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: It's because Italy is the only one who can hold you back and if he's too pre-occupied with me he can't fight you.
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: Do you not think that Italy might trust me, given that I could have won last turn by taking his centres? It wouldn't be a great way to return the favour if he turned round and fought me. I'd like to think he'll continue against you in order to come a strong and honourable second (or even possibly win if Germany plays well and holds out longer than you do).
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: Personally I see all 'survives' as equally good, but it does depend on opinion I guess.
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: points are on number of centres no?
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: Yeah technically, but when the second place has come with zero attempt made to win I don't think it is that valuable... You're going to win this turn anyway as you can do so without taking any of Italy's, so at least it's over.
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: someone is bitter germany, very bitter. you've been so defensive all game its no wonder you haven't won!
07 May 13 UTC Spring, 1908: You haven't won either! I'm as bitter as France and England yeah, because - to quote France - 'Italy doesn't care about winning and when you play against weak people like that, the game is just boring.' I hope we do another one though It's still been relatively fun.
07 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: There was nothing Germany could have done in the last few turns to stop Russia from winning whereas Italy could have gone for the win instead of messing around with France. The reason Russia won was because of Italy's lack of ambition/balls.
07 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: It was with my help against Austria that Italy got into a good position. You can call it a lack of ambition/balls not to attack me, or you can call it sticking to an agreement. Even if he did want to attack, he would have been at a disadvantage - my armies were better placed and he had France to deal with in the West. He would have likely lost if he'd tried it, unless he had active German support or at least passive support from France.
07 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Support he would have got, had he not attacked me rather than attacking you. This turn he could have gone Vienna to Galicia like I requested him to do and he would have been in behind. Can't do much damage with that but better than nothing.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: When I called a truce with Italy, he turned around and shoved a knife in my back. I wanted to stop Russia's advance into England but that got blown out of the water by Italy's greed. H's too short-sighted to see beyond what's immediately in front of him.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: I've just flicked through the moves France. You moved against Italy in 1902 and at no point do you stop attacking. The only set of moves that could be considered not anti-Italy are Spring 1904 and that was when you were refusing to vacate Liverpool, definitely not trying to stop a Russian conquest of England (Russia didn't move against me for a couple of years after). I think it is time to accept the greedy one in this has been you and stop blaming Italy or myself for you own shortcomings.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yes, arguable Italy should have moved against Russia, but if he had France would have just marched through the back of him and taken his centres. I don't think one should value a draw that highly to accept defeat yourself just to stop someone else winning. If you can feature in the draw then fair enough but I don't think France would have ever stopped attacking Italy. A strong second is definitely preferable to being taken out by a short-sighted, belligerent Napoleon.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: And Germany, I agree with you I am bitter, but against France, not Italy (and Tim as well, dropping out was terribly bad form)
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Interesting. By my reckoning if he stabs Italy Russia could guarantee himself a 20-SC win this turn
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: 1) The bounce in 1902 was pre-arranged by Italy and I. I will happily show you the transcripts after the game

2) in 1903 I began not trusting so I pre-emptively moved to Pie as he moved to the Western Med. By this time I asked for peace since we both had potential gains against each other to make. He agreed to pull out of the West Med and I made no further progress. He decides to back stab me and go for Spain. After that attack, I tell him to move away but he and England hold me in South France while Russia expands.

3) I have been the only one out of England, Italy and myself who has wanted peace. I was prepared to put the past behind us because a) that's what you do in Diplomacy and b) I don't hold grudges like a petulant child.

4) I would bet that England is the biggest stirrer in this whole game. I'm pretty sure he's been whispering in Italy's ear and masterminded all this/his end. Again, it would be interesting to read the transcripts.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Furthermore, if Italy does turn around and attacks Russia and I stab him, that would only bring me down to his level after publicly condemning what he did. Therefore, Italy has nothing to lose by attacking Russia and everything to lose by not.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: France, you chat so much shit. In answer to 3:

Thu 2 May Autumn, 1906: We can't afford for Germany to be overpowered. He will be too strong in that case.
Thu 2 May Autumn, 1906: We need to get troops over to support him/attack Russia or Russia will win
Thu 2 May Autumn, 1906: In fact if Russia gets Smyrna, Vienna, Berlin and Kiel and one of my home SCs he will win. A situation that seems relatively likely

Just an excerpt of the transcript from me. I have been trying to get people to work together to hold back Russia for years (game years) and both Germany and Italy have been supportive of the idea. The only person who has steadfastly refused to help "until I have sorted out my southern border" i.e taken out Italy, is you.

4) Exactly what have I masterminded with Italy? Him continuing to attack you with no benefits to me? That seems a very sensible course of action, to try and get people working together to stop Russia winning publicly, but actually work to get 2 key members of that alliance fighting each other so I myself am defeated. If you truly believe that you are even more of an idiot than you have shown yourself to be in the rest of the game.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: 3) Well done for finally considering mobilising after Russia had taken your home SCs in late 1906. You did a great job in inspiring confidence and support. If you had made a move earlier when I told you, we wouldn't be in this mess. I have always been supportive of stopping Russia but you continue to conspire with Italy to destroy me. "Sorting out my southern border" means exactly that. Holding my borders against relentless aggression from Italy. Please do not try and read things between the lines that aren't there. You sound like David.

4) I held Liverpool when you started working with Italy so please reconsider your claim of "no benefit to me (England)". You were short-sighted and only saw getting Liverpool back as the goal rather than stopping Russian expansion. Believing/knowing that you are an idiot does not mean that I am an idiot.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'm quite happy to show everyone my transcripts after the game. Can you do the same?
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: I have a great desire to punch you in the face every time I read one of your messages, which sounds like you are Yuhao.

The only reason I am only quoting from 1906 is that my messages from you don't go back beyond that apart from an "ok" in 1905. As far as I recall, and reading through my messages I see no evidence to suggest otherwise, I was the one who suggested we needed to work together to stop Russia (and Italy when I first suggested it). However you refused to see sense. How have you always been supportive of stopping Russia? If you had kept your fleet in NWG like I suggested we could have caused him real problems. Instead you decided to delete it and go aggressive against Italy. Having spoken to Italy I am certain he would have helped against Russia if it wasn't for you and Germany and myself have obviously been trying to hold him back, therefore you need to accept the blame lies at your door.

Yes I will freely admit I worked with Italy to weaken you in Spring 1904, however at this point Italy only held 5 SCs and Russia only held 7 and they didn't appear to be working closely together. You and Germany had 11 between you and were clearly working together so appeared to be the bigger threat. Also I did want Liverpool back.

However since then when I have been urging you to attack Russia it is not been to mastermind some great Italian destruction of you which you suggest. You are an idiot to suggest so as Italy taking over the entirety of France while myself and Germany try to fend off Russia is not in my interests.

So I repeat you are a a fool and an idiot (probably Yuhao).

I am also quite happy to show everyone my transcripts of the game. I would be happy to show you now.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: I deleted the fleet at Norwegian Sea since I had to. By this point Italy was pushing way into my lands and he wouldn't stop. I think his quote "there can only be war" sums up his attitude quite nicely. The only aggression came from Italy. I was merely trying to hold him back. Please have a look at the map and notice the Italian armies in France and Iberia.

Spring 1904. Italy has troops in 6 SCs which is will hold. I have troops in 4 SCs. Germany has troops in 5 SCs. 4 + 5 = 9. It doesn't equal 11. Here is a link that you may find useful:

Actually, looking at it, during Spring 1904 weren't you attacking Germany and helping Italy into Spain rather than attacking Russia?
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: He only has 6 after I helped him in. But apologies, you and Germany only held 10 between you, I forgot I'd taken Portugal off you. Yes in 1904 I was attacking you and Germany (AS I JUST EXPLAINED IN THE LAST MESSAGE - try and learn to read, it may help you in life) as Russia was only on 7 and you 2 looked more threatening. However I changed to move against Russia after that. In this game it is useful to be able to form alliances with people who have previously attacked you, not go "you attacked me in 1904 so I'm not working with you again"
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: I offered to work with both you and Italy. However, both you and Italy hold onto grudges.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: You are being very hypocritical here but I think we are boring the other players. Like I said, we will have a read of the transcripts after the game and talk about it then. No need to get all caps locky.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yeh, keep the insult-trading to the private chat guys! Also, the sooner you two click ready the sooner you will get to see your beloved transcripts..
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Anyone fancy a get together tomorrow to talk over the game? Would be an interesting exercise
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Anyone fancy a get together tomorrow to talk over the game? Would be an interesting exercise
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Or not now. I assumed Russia was going to finish it off for us by taking Munich, put the rest of us out of our misery.
08 May 13 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yeah I'd have been up for that, if it finishes later we can just do it at the weekend or something.
10 May 13 UTC Come on France, ready up so Russia can win. Assuming France does and Russia does go on to win, chat about it this evening post-dinner?

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Fwood (115 D)
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 20 D
19 supply-centers, 17 units
Njtongue (109 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D, won: 14 D
13 supply-centers, 12 units
yz (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D, won: 3 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
DW (165 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D, won: D
0 supply-centers, 1 units
masters66 (191 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
amcardle (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
monkeytim (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
amcardle (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1906) with 2 centres.
monkeytim (100 D)Turkey (Spring, 1904) with 3 centres.
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