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Yoyoyozo (187 D)
19 Nov 17 UTC
"Biggest Game of All Time" EOG
This thread is reserved for discussion of the gunboat game "Biggest Game of All Time" in which the some of the best gunboat players on the site slogged it out to see who would reign victorious
28 replies
Open
President Eden (2427 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Gunboat musings
I have been playing a couple of gunboats lately and spectating a few more. None of these thoughts concern ongoing games, so I think this should be safe to post.
President Eden (2427 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
* England and/or France opening to the English Channel in S01

I have seen this in the majority of GB games I've observed/played in lately and I just do not understand what is going on here. Every time this has generated significant mistrust between England and France, and I think in only one case out of the five that I saw did the power entering the Channel actually have ill intentions for the other. This has overwhelmingly been used as a path to make a power play on Belgium, but Germany has ended up with Belgium by the end of 1902 in nearly all of those games.
I am partial to other openings as both powers -- with England, I like opening to Norwegian Sea / North Sea / Edinburgh, and with France, I like opening to Burgundy with support and Mid-Atlantic Ocean. When I do open to the Channel with either power, it's because I am absolutely going after the other power and will order an army toward the Channel for convoying purposes.
I don't get why people "hedge" by going to the Channel but NOT setting up a way to attack the other power with it.

* Germany supporting Russia to Sweden in A1901

I have seen this play a lot in these games, and I love it.
The German-Russian situation in gunboat is much different than in full press. In full press, Germany can extort Russia with Sweden and compel Russia to take certain diplomatic stances and angles. In gunboat, the lack of press eliminates that option, and eliminates a lot of nuance that Germany can exploit with the option to bounce. Your options in Denmark in 1901 are essentially:
(A) punish Russian aggression in Silesia or Prussia
(B) stick it to Russia and bounce him without provocation
(C) explicitly signal to Russia that you're going to be her friend by supporting him into Sweden
Furthermore, because of Russia's relative weakness in gunboat -- unable to coordinate with her natural ally Italy, unable to mount meaningful offenses against Austria or Turkey without someone else deciding to jump in on the fun -- Germany essentially has all the power in the relationship. If Germany wants Sweden for himself, forcing that issue isn't hard, and Russia has very little meaningful recourse.
However, what I noticed in games where Germany DOES bounce Russia out of Sweden is that as the games progress onward, it's England who ends up with the advantage in Scandinavia. Allowing the English to maintain a foothold in Scandinavia is a scary prospect, since it's very hard to kick the English out once they're established with a 5-6 center base of operations.
If Germany DOES allow Russia to have Sweden, then Russia seems to reciprocate most of the time with an army build in St. Petersburg (and especially if Russia got two builds or if Russia's starting army in Warsaw is stuck there due to bouncing). It's a natural defensive reaction to English presence in Norway that simultaneously starts an English-Russian fight in Norway almost every time, which usually ends with Russia taking Norway and not making any further progress, and England tying up a lot of units trying to get somewhere.
This gives Germany a ton of leverage -- they can attack France without worrying about England rallying to France's aid, they can attack England with France and try to knock England out early, they can turn on Russia and force their way into Scandinavia with English help (but from a stronger position than if they'd allowed England to get a head start in Norway).

* Italy attacking Austria in 1901

I've seen this happen twice recently and both times Austria absolutely skullfucked Italy for it. And I'm not talking "letting Russia and Turkey have the centers," I mean Austria actually counterattacked Italy and obliterated them. The problem that Italy has had with these attacks is that they just don't work unless you commit to them in S1901, before you can know whether Russia or Turkey are going to give Austria problems. Surprise surprise, in both games Turkey picked a fight with Russia and left Austria completely unfettered. Austria also went +2 in both games, once due to a pretty hot read (Serbia S Vienna - Trieste to counter Tyrolia S Venice - Trieste!) and once because Italy just haphazardly tapped Trieste in A1901 which got blocked by A Vienna.
Mainly what I learned here is that Austria is fucking terrifying when it's not checked by Russia or Turkey from the outset. I don't necessarily think either power must commit to checking Austria as a consequence, although perhaps Turkey should (Russia is in a better position to work with Austria, Turkey ends up cornered too quickly). But it does mean that picking a 1v1 against Austria is pretty inadvisable and waiting to see how things shape up is the smarter approach for Italy.

* Italy moving to Piedmont in S1901, whether as a feint or a genuine attack in A1901

I never really considered this move too much, but I'm starting to love it as I see it played out. France is never in a position to punish it (probably because of the Channel shenanigans, see the first bullet point), and if they don't have overtly hostile neighbors after the first turn, you can always swing into Tyrolia and pretend it never happened. But the tempo that France can lose from overreacting to this army (and it does happen) is huge, especially since the common opening is for France to be in Burgundy and Marseilles after S1901. Moving to Piedmont incentivizes Burgundy - Marseilles - Spain in A1901, which leaves all of France's units clogged up around the Mediterranean, but not in a position to counterattack you for your S1901 move, and also takes away the leverage that France gained on Belgium. That invites England or Germany to get frisky, especially if they saw your move to Piedmont and assumed they might have a friend, and at the very least makes it likely for Germany or England to get Belgium, setting the stage for a less explosive French game and buying you time to get things done elsewhere.


If I had to come up with one key takeaway from all of this, it's the following credo:

*** Don't attack first! ***

Gunboat players as a group are strikingly aggressive and proactive. I think the lack of press makes you think that you have to be, since it's the only way to send a strong message about your priorities.
But I swear I see so many promising games derailed in the first year, because a player put their eggs in the "Attack X" basket, and it turned out that the diplomatic situation was really bad for an early attack on X. Italy attacking Austria only to find Turkey opening to Armenia, England and France butting heads over the Channel only to find Germany supporting Russia into Sweden, etc. Your whole plan for the game can go up in smoke because another power understandably didn't do exactly the one strategy you needed them to do for your attack to work.
Gunboat games are almost always long grindy slugfests to 18 rather than quick sprints to the finish line, so there should be no reason to rush into commitment to fighting one power. All that does is give away leverage to another neighbor, while not appreciably speeding you up toward a victory.
MajorMitchell (1033 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
I might have some provocative comments about grubby old gunboat games and your comments about England, France and Germany.. But I have to wait until some games finish. And they're Anon, so looking at my current games won't reveal anything, unless you're an Almighty Mod
2ndWhiteLine (3375 D (B))
24 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
I love Italy's Ven-Pie move in 1901 and I will also add that it has the additional effect of reassuring Austria that the army is no threat and thus frees up your one obvious ally to make a bolder play in the fall when they otherwise might need to consider covering Trieste.

I also agree that gunboat success does not come from being aggressive early on. Certain moves can drastically alter the state of the board from the very beginning of the game (such as a move to the Channel by either E or F) so it doesn't make sense to commit to an attack before seeing how the balance of power will rest after 1901 or even 1902.

If you don't know who the sucker is in a gunboat game by F1901, then it's probably you.
I think your take on the Italian French attack is right on. In Gunboat things don't seem to move as fast because allies can't coordinate attacks and steam roll a power, so strategies that aren't as viable in Full Press become a better option in Gunboat.

Even though I agree with your assessment about the EC, I have to disagree with your "Don't attack first!" analysis. I think the Russian Attack for Turkey is a much better strategy in Gunboat than it is in Full Press. You can absolutely wreck someone when you get the jump on them and they really have no way to call for help. They key is making sure you're getting the jump on them and not just pounding your head against the wall while someone sneaks in your back door.
Good post, P. Eden.


5 replies
Jamiet99uk (202 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
ALL FRIDAYS MATTER
These "Black Friday" campaigners and their liberal tumblrfag supporters have got a nerve. How dare they say non-Black Friday's aren't important? I say ALL FRIDAYS MATTER.

https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/11/24/white-nationalists-boycott-black-friday-claiming-fridays-matter/
4 replies
Open
brainbomb (469 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Brainbombs fall classic EOG
9 replies
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kanjk8 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
slip ring with high protection price
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4 replies
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President Eden (2427 D)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Automatic WebDiplomacy Poster for MANY +1s
website:http://www.webdiplomacy.net/profile.php?userID=25958
3 replies
Open
Neoma (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Where can I get a copy master degree?
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3 replies
Open
kanjk8 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
Pull door handles Made in China

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1 reply
Open
Mercy (1662 D)
21 Nov 17 UTC
(+2)
Hypothetical new scoring system
I had an idea for a new kind of scoring system and am interested in feedback.
44 replies
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damo666 (85 D)
22 Nov 17 UTC
GAME FOR POLITICAL PUPPETS ONLY
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3 replies
Open
Neoma (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
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4 replies
Open
Fluminator (496 D)
22 Nov 17 UTC
Net Neutrality
I don't understand how this is even a debate or how anyone could think removing it is a good idea. Anyone able to enlighten me?
31 replies
Open
kanjk8 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
SLT-High Speed Centrifugal Spray Dryer

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0 replies
Open
kanjk8 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
auto fuel filter media in stock
Dongguan Shenglian Filter Manufacturing Co., Ltd. has focused on all kinds of top quality filters for about 20 years. After several years hard work, we had made great achievement.
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0 replies
Open
brainbomb (469 D)
23 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
Less Epic Story Time!
Lets try this again!
49 replies
Open
President Eden (2427 D)
23 Nov 17 UTC
(+3)
I am really sick of seeing my people's holidays turned into commercial degeneracy.
I love Thanksgiving and Christmas. Celebrating them with my family is an absolute delight.
The mood gets utterly ruined when I see that "Black Friday Christmas sales" are beginning at 5:00 PM on Thanksgiving. It's not even Friday! And why does "Black Friday" even exist?
29 replies
Open
bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
China Auto Lighting System for HONDA ODYSSEY
website:http://www.sporaxap.com/auto-parts-for-honda/body-parts-and-accessories-for-honda-odyssey/
6 replies
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24 Nov 17 UTC
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24 Nov 17 UTC
Long Eye Relief Scout Scope manufacturers
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1 reply
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bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Machine parts
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website:http://www.sp-oem.net/
0 replies
Open
bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
House Heating Heat Pump
The smart touch screen controller is very easy to read and understand, all the running state and sensor date can be seen by easy operation.House Heating Heat Pump
website:http://www.speedy-energy.com/heat-pump/house-heating-heat-pump/
0 replies
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bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
Portable Spectrum Analyzer
website:http://www.spectro-analyzers.com/handheld-spectrometer/
0 replies
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24 Nov 17 UTC
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0 replies
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bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
China Electric Minibus Air Conditioner

website:http://www.songzac.com/new-energy-bus-air-conditioning/electric-minibus-air-conditioning/
0 replies
Open
bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
stainless steel angle factory
Should you are interested in our products, take action to buy or wholesale the quality polished 304/316 stainless steel angle for sale in stock from our factory. Shaanxi Rehi, as one of the leading manufacturers and suppliers in China, has various sizes of products with competitive price at your choice.stainless steel angle factory
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0 replies
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bvhgfh5 (0 D X)
24 Nov 17 UTC
single spiral cooking plate
Our product is delivered to more than 40 countries and regions, mainly in North America and Europe. Currently we are exploring the Middle-east, south-east Asia and Africa market. We welcome any new business partners to join us and look forward to cooperating with you for mutual benefits in the future.single spiral cooking plate
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0 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2057 D (G))
23 Nov 17 UTC
(+3)
Happy Thanksgiving everyone
-Valis
12 replies
Open
WyattS14 (0 D (B))
23 Nov 17 UTC
An idea for a better version of the movie Passengers.
We're talking horror and moral dilemma, read below (Spoilers!)
6 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (202 D)
17 Nov 17 UTC
(+4)
The best thing about HeroQuest
Is this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx8sl2uC46A
11 replies
Open
brainbomb (469 D)
19 Nov 17 UTC
Inspirational Females
Here is a thread to post inspirational stories about women who have positively impacted your life.
316 replies
Open
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