Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 304 of 412
FirstPreviousNextLast
spyman (424 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Karl Marx's predictions about wages
If I under correctly Karl Marx predicted that workers wages would fall, over time, until the workers would have no choice but to overthrow the system. Can anyone tell in which book/essay he actually made this prediction?
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Wages Labour and Capital and the Communist Manifesto both say this.
spyman (424 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Thanks Putin33. I had a feeling you might know.

IAfter some googling I see he also goes into some detail in Das Kapital about this. At least these chapters do.

Chapter Twenty-Four: Conversion of Surplus-Value into Capital
Chapter Twenty-Five: The General Law of Capitalist Accumulation
steephie22 (182 D (S))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Might I ask why you ask?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Yeah, i mean i think socialist history is a massive amazing intellectual creation. But i also see that Marx's predictions didn't see the conpromises that make up social democracy. Though given that real wages are still dropping a revolution could still happen - i think Germany in the 20s shows that the end of liberal democracy due to economic stress is not inevitably communism/socialism - fascists can rise.

And Trump may be that in today's US... Meanwhile i suspect there is no chance of a workers revolt in the US; whatever the chances of a social democracy under Sanders...
bah! the compromises that make up social democracy? capitalism trying to make itself appear palatable to the masses, and using superstructure/ideology/cultural hegemony to maintain the illusion of it being reasonable/the only good way things can be done. things are still so so twisted, especially once you get below a certain income level.


And this is without even thinking about imperialism as the highest form of capitalism, and how capitalism not only is violent abroad, but we have exported our horrible industrial working conditions abroad. I could go on and on on this point, lol.
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Marx didn't say anything was inevitable and understood the potential for reaction. Read his work on the 18th Brumaire and the Paris Commune.
JECE (1322 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Putin33: Right, but there is still a teleological air to his other work. That may be a problem with political theory itself, not just Marx's, but that's what turns me off.

18th Brumaire, by the way, is a perfect example of a work historians use today when studying 19th Century French history. Marx is more loved today for his analyses than his economic theory.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
15 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
I think you're wrong there, JECE. His economic theory still has a decent amount of supporters as far as I can tell.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
15 Mar 16 UTC
@putin, fair enough, i stand corrected.
JECE (1322 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
steephie22: Oh, certainly, but you'd be amazed at how accepted his other analyses of 19th Century events and living conditions are among historians and other social scientists.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
15 Mar 16 UTC
I concur that I have little clue about that. I was more talking about philosophic boys and girls as well as the obvious economics people though, I'm not sure whether that demographic outweighs the historians and other social scientists demographic.
TrPrado (461 D Mod)
15 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
The bourgeoisie actively attempting to prevent class warfare by pacifying the workers doesn't mean Marx was wrong.
Hannibal76 (268 D (B))
15 Mar 16 UTC
True that.
krellin (80 D X)
15 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
"pacifying the workers"....lol Such idiocy. The workers demand more, sometimes they get it *IF* they can demonstrate they are worth it. Else, if they have the power-base, they blackmail the company (i.e. Union strike) which is morally corrupt (ask the companies that go bankrupt...i.e. GM...because workers demanded wages and benefits the company couldn't afford (Oh...but the workers were "pacified"....until the company went under and everyone lost their pensions...)

See, the joy of this society is that you have the freedom to improve your lot in life, instead of waiting fo rthe next government-directed hand-out.

"Ohhhh...but it's h-a-r-r-r-r-r-r-d to get an education and blah blah blah..."

yeah...no....it's really isn't. Yeah, you might get some debt..but if you improve yourself correctly (i.e. NOT art history) then your debt will pay for itself.

Idon't need a company to "pacify" me. I will work to achieve what I desire.

Most of the problem with workers is they demand far more than they are actually willing to work to achieve ($15/hour burger flippers that can't make change for a $5 if their cash register breaks..)

bah....it's all idiocy.

Socialism is the opiate of the morons and the lazy.
krellin (80 D X)
15 Mar 16 UTC
BAM....I gotta get outta here now before I really express my feelings and get banned.

But that should be enough to wad up a bunch of your ridiculous panities...
TrPrado (461 D Mod)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Workmans comp, health insurance, safety standards, legal recognition of unions, minimum wages, etc all came into existence for that purpose.
TrPrado (461 D Mod)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Though, workmans comp also protects businesses from suits.
y2kjbk (5402 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Hitler rose to power by preaching socialist ideology. The promises of socialism when combined with the aspirations of authoritarians exacerbates the pitfalls of socialism (unfettered restrictions on freedoms and the free market) that can be kept in check in a truly democratic society with leaders that aren't in it for money and power, while realizing very real social benefits that don't demotivate a society, but rather boost it. Poor people spend 100 - 110 percent of their paychecks out of necessity, rich people spend 5 - 10 percent of their paychecks because they can afford to save. Economies are fueled much more efficiently by real spending and lending, not by unfettered financial speculation and off-shore stashed profits. A living minimum wage of $15/hour will do wonders for the US economy, despite what the CEO's of Walmart and McDonalds think, and even despite what the brilliant krellin might think.
Hannibal76 (268 D (B))
15 Mar 16 UTC
@Krellin I understand your argument, but sometimes these workers have no other alternatives. The jobs they work are jobs that someone HAS to work in order for society to function. In the past people got decent wages from working in factories. Now finding work with decent pay in said factories is hard seeing as lots of the jobs are sent overseas and robots replaced humans for many jobs. Also, you mentioned that companies can't afford to pay their workers more. I don't see how that's possible when owners of these large companies are billionares that constantly hand themselves bonuses.
y2kjbk (5402 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
Krellin shrugging off the issue of student debt is laughable.
Octavious (1715 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
How does student debt work in the US? In the UK system it can only be paid if you earn a high salary, so acts essentially as a tax on wealthy graduates. Amusingly the Lib Dems were destroyed as a party for allowing this to happen, despite it being exactly what they wanted in everything but name :p.
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
In the US you pay your debt upon graduation. Depending on the loan, you can get a brief grace period (6 months usually) before payments are due. If you can prove hardship (I think the standard is loans take up 20% of your monthly bills) you can get a forbearance, but the interest still accrues. If you go on to graduate studies you can get a deferment usually, depending on the loan.

JECE (1322 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Octavious: Students graduate with tens of thousands of U. S. dollars in loans at interest rates of 6% or 7%. (These are modest figures.) Unlike any other type of debt, former students can never declare bankruptcy on student debt. This along with the massive loans and high interest rates mean that educated U. S. citizens of middle class backgrounds are crippled with hundreds of U. S. dollars in debt payments every month for decades on end, which of course drags down the rest of the economy.
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
"Right, but there is still a teleological air to his other work. That may be a problem with political theory itself, not just Marx's, but that's what turns me off."

What work has a teleological air?

He insists the masses are the makers of history. One of his oft quoted lines from the Feuerbach Theses is that philosophers interpret the world, the point is to change it. He was a committed revolutionist himself, which demonstrates he didn't think these things were just going to happen with nobody actively doing something about it.

I get it that you don't care for Marx, but at least don't concoct strawman reasons for doing so.
JECE (1322 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Putin33: Talk about concocting strawmen . . .

Anyway: VOTE!

We can debate this later.
TrPrado (461 D Mod)
15 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
I think socialism is in a sad state of affairs when someone who doesn't even identify as a socialist (myself) has greater respect for Marx than someone who thinks he represents most modern socialists (JECE).
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
I voted yesterday. Thanks.
spyman (424 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
steephie22 wrote: "Why may I ask"

I have been having a discussion with a Trotskyite who denies that Marx made such a prediction. He challenged me to quite where Marx made the claim.
spyman (424 D (G))
15 Mar 16 UTC
Typo... *quote where Marx made the claim
Putin33 (111 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Good luck.


30 replies
Baskineli (100 D (B))
12 Mar 16 UTC
What I don't like about Diplomacy
Is that this is a zero-sum game. In order to win, you have to make other players lose. I, as an entrepreneur, libertarian and capitalist, find it particularly hard to see the behavior of people when they think they are playing a zero-sum game. Maybe this is why I take human behavior in the game so hard.
46 replies
Open
JEccles (421 D)
10 Mar 16 UTC
Ghost Ratings
What happens if we can't find ourselves on the list when using control+F? Does that mean we haven't been ranked?
26 replies
Open
Colonel Saloh Cin (100 D)
15 Mar 16 UTC
Is Beast Coast still alive, or did it die long ago?
Or is it just now making it's way out the door. Flatbush Zombies released their first main album on the 11th, so that's why I'm asking.
2 replies
Open
KingCyrus (516 D)
12 Mar 16 UTC
Voting Strategy
With the current political landscape, I am facing the very real possibility of the two main candidates being, in my opinion, pretty awful. I have had numerous discussions with friends over the strategy, but I bring it to you. Is it worth it to vote on principle? Should I vote third party if I think they are the best candidate? Or do I vote for the lesser of two evils among the big two?
116 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4911 D Mod (G))
14 Mar 16 UTC
A Donald Trump Conspiracy
Or, if you would prefer, a case that he is one of the best marketers and media manipulators around, something I think we already knew.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/13/donald-trumps-chicago-scam/
46 replies
Open
JenkinsCh (35 D X)
14 Mar 16 UTC
Paused Game
So about 3 months ago I started playing WebDip. I told some friends and they started to play too. Well one guy stopped playing so we paused a game... and its still paused, is their a way to unpause/draw it. Haha
2 replies
Open
kaner406 (381 D)
14 Mar 16 UTC
(+9)
2012 World Cup
A compilation of that epic match for your pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oLlb5TndQs
2 replies
Open
cpman (0 D X)
14 Mar 16 UTC
Anybody up for a Low-Stakes Live Game in like an hour?
Hi!
Just wondering if anybody would be up for a low stakes live game starting in like an hour.
I'm thinking a bet of 10 and 15 minute phases?
4 replies
Open
eturnage (500 D (B))
14 Mar 16 UTC
not ready setting
Hello, I'm a newbie here. I am curious. If I put in some orders, save them and click the ready button, my orders are in and everything is great. Later, I go and click not ready. My previous orders were in and now I am changing some of them. I fail to clock watch and the time to make my moves expires. Does the software progress with my first set of orders? Or does the software cause my power to go into Civil Disorder.
4 replies
Open
JEccles (421 D)
14 Mar 16 UTC
The "Won't Hit Ready" Sportsmanship Move
What are thoughts on people not readying up when the game doesn't go their way?
15 replies
Open
reedeer1 (100 D)
14 Mar 16 UTC
Taunt
wouldn't it be great if a troop as its turn could taunt? It would create so much salt. It would do nothing but change its appearance for that turn. I know taunting could be done in global, but still it would be fun.
3 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
25 Feb 16 UTC
Irish Election Predctions
So i'm going to vote tomorrow, and here are my predictions.
54 replies
Open
VillageIdiot (6818 D)
10 Jun 15 UTC
ODC Tournament Update
.. let's check in and see how things are shaping up.
779 replies
Open
reedeer1 (100 D)
13 Mar 16 UTC
More Than, or less than?
My mom is creating a recipe book that is going to be published, and she came to a point where she didn't know weather to capitalize as part of the title: "More Than, or Less Than" or not "more than, or less than"
Which way do you guys think is right?
39 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
04 Mar 16 UTC
Buy used copies of Windows 95, 97, XP
I also have free copies of AOL 2.0 And Netscape 3.5.1 from 1999. TOP NOTCH SHIT. Ill cut you a deal yo. Half off the price + HJ under the table ;). Also free copies of the King James Bible.
4 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
13 Mar 16 UTC
It's No Longer Valis Birthday
But it is mine.
The guy who stole the crown for most annoying webdipper. In the spirit of shameless self promotion, roast me if you want. Feel free to call me an assholio.
8 replies
Open
wjessop (100 D X)
25 Feb 16 UTC
(+2)
RECLAIM THE NIGHT
Women should feel and be safe walking in the streets every day and night. Sadly, this just isn't the case, all across the world. But once a year UK feminist groups hold a Reclaim the Night march across our cities. Tonight is that night, reclaiming the night for our mums, sisters, daughters, family and friends that just happen to be women.

http://www.reclaimthenight.co.uk/why.html
212 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
05 Mar 16 UTC
Rivalries
Who is your biggest rivals on webdiplomacy? Is there anyone you cannot stand playing against and why? Share your rivalry tales here.
63 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
11 Feb 16 UTC
(+1)
Roman's never recorded anyone named Jesus being crucified
For an empire which was renowned for record keeping; it always struck me as odd that nobody named Jesus was ever Crucified. I asked my Mormon girlfriend once and they told me it was because Romans were afraid to let the truth get out that they had killed the son of God.
217 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 D X)
12 Mar 16 UTC
Checking In
.

Gentlemen, I'm back. What did I miss? How are the times and tides of our beloved community?
10 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (443 D)
13 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
UK in crisis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/emergency-biscuits-flown-into-uk-due-to-national-shortage-a6927561.html
1 reply
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1333 D)
11 Mar 16 UTC
What's the point of hidden draw votes in a gunboat?
I don't really see any, but perhaps I'm blinkered.
6 replies
Open
MohawkFox (100 D)
13 Mar 16 UTC
Join in for another round of classic diplomacy!
Hosted by MohawkFox, we play another round of good old Diplomacy.
Join here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=176027
0 replies
Open
Maniac (344 D (B))
13 Mar 16 UTC
U.K. Games expo
Is anyone going!

http://www.thenec.co.uk/whatson/uk-games-expo
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4911 D Mod (G))
12 Mar 16 UTC
I Demand a Refund
I paid for a car wash after I got gas at Shell this evening but their wash was out of service. I asked for a refund and was told that it wasn't their fault that the wash was closed and that I should come back some other time when it's open and use the code then.

I'm curious to see what other stupid things you all should but can't get a refund for because of jackass cashiers.
35 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4911 D Mod (G))
13 Mar 16 UTC
(+4)
It's Valis's Birthday
The guy who stole the crown for most annoying person on webDip (before having it swiftly taken again by brainbomb) is turning 74 years old today.
17 replies
Open
Patburu (0 D X)
12 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
GL 5-min EOG
I'm just posting my notes beginning in 1903. 4 way draw. We could have eliminated Italy, but we had other obligations that caused us to hit draw


5 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (182 D)
11 Mar 16 UTC
(+1)
Congrats on your well deserved solo!
Please use this thread to congratulate people that decide to solo a game because of a CD that gives them the solo.
13 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
12 Mar 16 UTC
Why Freya is a better Deity than Yaweh
Freya actually helps harvests and stuff
11 replies
Open
Page 304 of 412
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top