Unfortunately, Tolstoy, I can't go around putting names on a label like "white supremacist" or else the webDip gods will get after me. It would be nice if I could; the world deserves to know.

Also, are you telling me that Leonard Peltier is now out of prison? I pray that you bring me good news.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/21/3741450/native-american-artifacts-oregon-standoff/

" i'm saying if this is a different scenario, that car has 1000 bullet holes in it."
"Why doesn't it?"

Advocates of racial quotas for people murdered by the police - you people are really sick. Not enough that a majority of victims of police homicides are white - no, you won't be happy unless police kill three or four times as many white people, because racism.

Personally, I won't be happy until police don't kill people.

"Also, are you telling me that Leonard Peltier is now out of prison? I pray that you bring me good news."

Leonard Peltier was tried and convicted for events that happened two years after Wounded Knee, you ignorant bigot.

Obviously, that's a two-way street in many instances, but in some others it's not.

"Personally, I won't be happy until police don't kill people."

Bullshit. You're gloating over a man killed by police today because he was white, and have been calling for the police to kill these protesters throughout the entire thread.

The massacre at Wounded Knee and Pine Ridge lasted three years whether the semantics in your history textbook admit it or not, Tolstoy.

Yes, the police should kill these people. Did I say that it is always the police's fault that people die? Oh, wait, I said the exact fucking opposite.

"http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/21/3741450/native-american-artifacts-oregon-standoff/"

Is this it? Pointing out how shittily the Authorities are treating the artifacts held in their possession is "tampering"? WTF does the BLM have these artifacts, anyways? Why aren't they in the hands of the Paiutes themselves?

If I said the sky is blue, would you find the ability somewhere in your dead, cold heart to agree with me?

"The massacre at Wounded Knee and Pine Ridge lasted three years whether the semantics in your history textbook admit it or not, Tolstoy."

Actually, the massacres and oppressions of native people have been going on for FOUR HUNDRED YEARS! You care today only because you saw some gun-owning conservative republican landowners being portrayed as "tampering" with native artifacts on thinkprogress.org.

BUT NOT ONE FUCKING WORD OF CONDEMNATION FOR THE GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN SLAUGHTERING, OPPRESSING, AND STEALING THE LAND OF NATIVES FOR FOUR HUNDRED YEARS!!!

Not one word of concern, for instance, for the many Native American ranchers whose land and livelihoods have been seized and destroyed by the same BLM these people are standing up to. Nope, that doesn't fit the "narrative". Shows just what the priorities of the modern "progressives" are - hating on rural whites, and supporting the government (when run by a Democrat) no matter what, even as they run roughshod over the life, liberty, and property even of non-whites.

Um, no, I was specifically referring to the massacre at Wounded Knee and Pine Ridge. That has not been going on for 400 years. It went on for three and some argue that the effects of it are still felt there today, a claim I don't doubt. I wasn't talking about other massacres or crimes against indigenous people. You're not wrong, but that wasn't my point. The only reason you pull that shit out of your ass is to fool yourself into thinking that your constant disagreeing for disagreement's sake makes you indisputably right and everyone else indisputably wrong.

Eminent domain is a thing.

Generally speaking, eminent domain is a shitty thing, today and in the past.

Regardless, it's a fairly well established concept, and not one we'll see go away any time soon.

@ Tolstoy, you said:

"" i'm saying if this is a different scenario, that car has 1000 bullet holes in it."
"Why doesn't it?"

Advocates of racial quotas for people murdered by the police - you people are really sick. Not enough that a majority of victims of police homicides are white - no, you won't be happy unless police kill three or four times as many white people, because racism."

Obviously we would rather that the police didnt kill anyone, but if we take it, for hypothetical purposes, as a matter of fact that the police will kill people, wouldn't we rather that the police didnt seem to be more likely to kill someone just because of their race? Obviously this isn't to say more whites should be killed, but aren't you in the least bit perturbed about how disproporionately non-whites are killed? Or no fucks given?

This whole situation feels like another Ruby Ridge to me. Our own government killing Americans in cold blood makes me sick.

For the sake of justice, it obviously matters who pulled a gun first, but in instances where a civilian points a weapon at or threatens an enforcement officer or anything of that nature, it shouldn't be surprising that people die. The Weavers and the Bundys should have known that just as well as any so-called "thug" in an urban setting gunned down be police should. Realistically, these deaths add up to one thing - stupidity.

@ Gunfighter: "Our own government killing Americans in cold blood makes me sick."

Do you know the exact circumstances in which this person (named locally as Bundy associate Robert Finicum) was killed? Your use of the phrase "in cold blood" suggests you are 100% certain he was the victim of some kind of summary execution by the authorities. I don't know how you could know such a thing based on the information currently in the public domain.

@ bo_sox: "For the sake of justice, it obviously matters who pulled a gun first, but in instances where a civilian points a weapon at or threatens an enforcement officer or anything of that nature, it shouldn't be surprising that people die. The Weavers..."

Whoah. Going to have to stop you there, bo_sox. I'm not in favour of private gun ownership and I have little sympathy for the Bundys. However, I've done some reading about the Ruby Ridge case and the authorities were very much in the wrong. It's been accepted in court that both Sammy Weaver and Vicki Weaver were wrongly killed and that their killings were almost certainly unlawful. Sammy Weaver, a minor, was shot in the back while he was running away from the Marshalls who killed him, and Vicki Weaver was killed by a sniper who was trying to kill her husband, when neither of them was posing any immediate threat.

In the Weaver case the stupidity was on the part of the authorities.

"aren't you in the least bit perturbed about how disproporionately non-whites are killed? Or no fucks given?"

I give a fuck that in many cases, completely innocent people are murdered by the police. Am I supposed to give an extra fuck if the victim was black? Maybe a fuck and a half if they are hispanic? Do Asians just get the one fuck, or do they get an extra fractional fuck as well?

"Obviously we would rather that the police didnt kill anyone"

Not obvious at all, the way some people are gloating over the death of LaVoy Finicum, who was possibly unarmed and on his knees when he was shot. Ditto for the mockery of Ruby Ridge and Waco. For many Social Justice Warriors, the death of whites (or, in the case of Waco, assumed whites) at the hands of the state is apparently a commendable balancing of the scales of racial justice.

"wouldn't we rather that the police didnt seem to be more likely to kill someone just because of their race?"

Why race? Why not mental illness? Or males? Or the poor? Or people who tend to be out late at night? Why is race such an overwhelmingly important factor in the analysis of police homicides, but not any of these other things, which I'd bet are all more relevant to your likelihood of being killed by the police than melanin levels?

"Why race?"

I am very seriously and earnestly hoping for an answer to this question.

That is a misleading question. 'Why do you care only about race?'

When the original person never said 'only' - you are putting that word into their mouth. It is possible to care about race and gender and mental health and class. And in particular to see how those things affect each other, (for example: mental health issues suck, but coming from a wealth family and coming from a poor family can make a big different in how that suck-iness affects your quality of life)

I am not one for gloating over the death of LaVoy Finicum, and anyone who wanted to go in and kill these people has vastly different views to mine. I don't entirely disagree with you, that some SJWs seemed to want this to happen, at least in some posts.

Tolstoy, why are you avoiding the rather simple question. How about you answer mine, and then ask questions?" "wouldn't we rather that the police didnt seem to be more likely to kill someone just because of their race? Obviously this isn't to say more whites should be killed, but aren't you in the least bit perturbed about how disproporionately non-whites are killed? Or no fucks given?"

I copied it and pasted it for you. Right now I think you're in the no fucks given camp, but I'll wait and see what you say.

You said you give a fuck if innocent people are killed, and I do too. The question put to you, is do you not give an additional fuck if one group is being very disproportionately killed. I think, and many people who have thought long and hard about the issue, do think you should give an additional fuck about it. This isn't because an individual black death is worse than an individual white death. This is because in addition to the tragic death of an innocent, it seems like there is a problem of racism motivating these killings. At the very least, implicit bias leading to actions which are racist. If for you this isn't an issue at all, well I don't really know what to say.

Thank you ora, for making a good (pretty obvious) point. Maybe Tolstoy thought it was beyond people to think about these things. But I, and many people, care about gender, class, mental health etc. and race.

This situation is nothing like Ruby Ridge.
In Oregon, criminal thugs occupied federal land and threatened federal agents. They deserve to have the book thrown at them.

i don't want/don't like when anyone is killed. this situation, however makes me disgusted in the sense that non-oppressed people (white ranchers in this case) take violent action because they feel oppressed in some entitled sense when in reality they are perhaps some of the most privileged people in the history of the world. i give infinitely more fucks about actual oppressed people actually being oppressed -- in the US that would be poor minorities usually.