One thing I've seen a lot of when looking through old games is the four way, five way draw. It seems like a lot of people are just playing for the draw. A scoring system that encouraged players to try for a higher SC count and thus more points, like Sum of Squares, might encourage players to not just take a draw as soon as a few powers were eliminated.

Sum of Squares is a hideous system for the reason Jeff mentioned. I can understand its value in face to face events when there isn't enough time to play a game properly, but for online play with no such restrictions I really don't understand why it exists

5-player draws are weak. 4-player draws are pretty standard because two pairs make it to that stage. The trick is going to the next which often requires that extra diplomatic flair and persistence.

Most people just play the default. PPSC was the most popular method of scoring when it was the default, and there wasn't so much as a single word of dissent when that was removed :).

Also, it is common for the player with the most SCs to get more than half of the points at stake with sum of squares scoring. That is just plain wrong.

"Also, it is common for the player with the most SCs to get more than half of the points at stake with sum of squares scoring. That is just plain wrong."

That's a fair criticism. It just seems like Draw Size Scoring encourages draws. Maybe the alternate method proposed by Mercy would be better. The largest power gets half the pot, the rest is split between the survivors.

^^ http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1524356#1524356 I rly like this idea, please feel free to have your say and I'll do my best to defend this scoring system

Draw Size Scoring encourages solos, not draws. Once a solo is stopped, it encourages people to cut the size of the draw, which I think is a little bit unfair. The risk of going for a solo is sometimes a bigger draw.

Except in the game I'm in at the moment where I started to go for a solo, but screwed it up. so instead of eliminating Austria who's on 2 sc's for the 3 way draw they've decide to eliminate me...

I don't mind SoS scoring & nice bit of provocative bait HR. I just would like one, non default scoring system that wasn't winner takes all when someone solos. Why ? Because wta encourages a back stab when two players have a successful alliance, whereas if there was a non wta scoring system, then a "loyal lieutenant" can support his captain to a WIN and share in the success.

@MajorMitchell Never mind how the points would actually be split up, this system would reward second place for taking a dive, which seems contrary to the spirit of the game.

i'm probably never going to play DSS again if I can avoid it tbh

I hate sum of squares and refuse to play.

I can’t stand playing any type of board game where a player is still a part of the game but has no chance of winning. In SoS the difference between getting elimated and having 1 center is almost nothing. In draw-size scoring, only one center is required t share in a draw (not a “win” per se but still something).

Nihilism sets in for near-dead players in SoS. In DSS they fight like wounded animals.

I think SoS could be useful for limited duration tourney games that expect to typically end before a solo or full stalemate, but otherwise, DSS is is the only way! If you can make yourself crucial to the stalemate draw, then you deserve an equal part of the pie, and if not, you should be eliminated and get nothing..

I personally think cutting the draw is a long, tiring, and boring process that kills my desire to play diplomacy. Play to win. And if you don't win then who cares what the draw size is

Also, if you're topping the board I think that deserves to be recognized.

I think far far too many players don't give the endgame their full attention, and I think this is usually the most exciting part of the game. Will you survive? Will you solo? Will someone try to cut you out? Do you throw, or can do you still have one more move to secure your place in the draw? Will someone else throw the solo before they are eliminated? Every move can be life or death for every player! So many players lose interest if the opening or mid-game doesn't go their way, and are missing out.

SoS is great until you have people on a couple of SC's who have absolutely nothing to play for. I'm not really a fan of DSS, but I do prefer it to SoS because of that.

So what system are you a fan of, HR? PPSC?!?

HR is about that carnage scoring

Carnage is pretty decent tbh.

ManorCon works pretty well though. Basically SoS with a top-up for survival to allay the weakness of SoS with small powers.

How does Carnage scoring work?

Having played a fair bit of manorcon, I don’t think it results in different play incentives.

Carnage is essentially a ranked system- ranking players by SC count and then by eliminations. It’s a good system for shortening a game with a foregone non-solo conclusion- if your ranking won’t change you have no incentive not to draw.

I really like Sum-of-Squares. It's simply a different philosophy from Draw-Size.

In SoS, when you draw you get what you had, relative to the strength of the other powers. A 17 center power is much closer to a solo than a 4 center one, and as such points are divided proportionally.

I would defend Draw-Disvaluated Scoring as an alternative.

I think ManorCon and SoS probably have smaller differences in FTF because games have realistic time limits, whereas here games keep going forever. And it's also far easier to completely checkout online as opposed to a FTF event where you're hopefully enjoying yourself regardless.

BRING BACK PPSC!!

oh hello, jamiet. what do you want now?

Abandon Omaha and #Give Oklahoma back to Native Americans!

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1516559#1516559

The funny thing is, why must the "Highlander" attitude? You know, "There can only be one!"...."It is the time of the quickening! Only one form of scoring can exist!" It's like saying that vanilla shakes cannot exist because chocolate shakes are better! What if the were.................3! 3 types of scoring! Would that be a drama tragedy mockery of a sham? Anyone ever heard the phrase, "to each their own"? How about the phrase, "quit bitchin' and play the game!" Sorry, folk, RL has ne down lately.

Get rid of Sum of Squares scoring and institute Sum of Square Roots scoring!

HR: games here only go forever when you’re in them.

Those are live games :D

I was never in that World Cup game.

SoS is necessary. First, it prepares you for playing in ftf events where it is now the standard. Second, most of you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. You see the smaller powers getting few points. However, the proper way to look at SoS is to consider how you can use the points as an argument for other people to switch their alliance. SoS creates an environment that is much more dynamic. More alliance changes. More stabs. It is a superior system when people are skilled at understanding how the points work and use the scoring system to argue their way into fluid alliances.

SoS games last too long and losing players tend to just give up

No, strong countries doesn't work to kill 1SC countries so games ends faster.

Right, because small countries give up. CDs are easy to eliminate.