I don't think USA has many friends left any longer. :(

Lol at America ever being an example to look up to for the rest of the world.

Blindly following them into Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya sure worked out well eh?

HR. With your views it makes sense that you never were a friend of the USA, but I was until this Tuesday. But then they lost me too.

You should be worrying about Le Pen winning France and ending the EU in early 2017.

You are right. I am worrying lots about Le Pen!

Those of us who elected Trump just simply don't care that much about the US's reputation around the world.

More clearly, that isn't why a reason we we voted for him.

Lol, jeez Peter could you be more cucked? Sweden makes me sad.

Yup, Chaqa, you don't. And a lot of you probably don't own passports or know much about any other country. Because America is big enough and diverse enough that you can stay within your country and still feel like you've moved to a different culture.

That said, if Trump keeps his promises and re-negotiates NAFTA and leaves NATO, this could see a very different Europe aswell.

"Those of us who elected Trump just simply don't care that much about the US's reputation around the world."

Why not, exactly? Military might and that whole big stick philosophy have always been at the crux of conservative ideals. Reagan wanted the US to lead the world. Bush wanted the US to do the same. I would argue that Hillary wanted to police more than lead, but that is beside the point. What changed among conservatives?

Canada's PM came out within 48 hours of Trump's election and said they're willing to renegotiate NAFTA.

Putin explicitly said that we avoided World War III by not electing Clinton -- and Trump was the only person available in the general who could have kept her out.

Common people all over the Middle East are overjoyed that we're not going to keep systemically bringing apocalyptic horrors like ISIS into the world to destabilize the region for the sake of undercutting Russian oil in the European marketplace.

I'm sure that Saudi Arabia and Qatar think worse of us. Fuck them. It's bullshit that our foreign policy was subservient to their wishes for the last eight years because they bought favors via the Clinton Foundation. (And possibly longer than that -- that's just what we know so far.)


I kind of agree with Chaqa. Definitely his restatement in his second post: we didn't vote him because we were worried about Swedes and French looking down their noses at us while their country gets run over by an immigration crisis that we have the balls to stop from happening here. I care about the US's reputation around the world, but I couldn't give two fucks what Europe thinks about us.

@orath: No, I don't have a passport. I've never needed to. I can experience every climate I want in the US. If/when I want to "see the world", I'll get one. It's just not something I've ever had a need for.

@bo: I don't agree with the typical conservative military philosophy, so I'm not the one to ask about this. I do favor Trump's more isolationist stance as opposed to Hillary's hawkishness, though.

Most real conservatives were NEVER in favor of intervention. That was the Republican leadership, mainly

I agree with most of the things President Eden just said.
I hope greatly that Trump can put a hold to World War III. Like I have no idea how so many Americans don't even have this on there radar. If it sounds ludicrous to you, research and look up Russian and American relations, and actual world events outside of America. Russia and America currently have worse relations than they did in the cold war! Yet the American media never talks about it.

Many countries celebrate Hillary's loss. The policing and toppling of governments that don't align with American interests at the cost of so many lives will hopefully be stalled. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, every other country America bullied. If you think it's because America is the good guys saving the civilians of those countries, think again. If morality was actually a concern to D.C. they wouldn't be allied with places like Saudi Arabia which is worse than Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Maybe the Clinton Foundation will stop being able to give favors to Saudi Arabia now.

If people think we're just blowing smoke, tell us which part, and we can provide you with source after source.

Well, of course conservatives LOVE dictatorships like Putin's. If you believe Putin, you're clearly an idiot. But sure, one of the main characteristics is that they don't give a shit about any other human being (all while saying how Christian they are!) Hell, these people would have been happy to sell arms to Hitler.

Yes, they don't care what the world thinks of the US anymore than ISIS really does.

Well, you can produce sources like Breitbart, drudge and inforwars, with a little Pravda thrown in along with some Stormfront.

Ogion, you are a cruel, heartless, bigot. All of the things you accused 'conservatives' of being, describes your own secret feelings. you clearly don't think of others, but focus on your own little sick existence. perhaps you need more of that medical marijuana to feel better about yourself. so smoke away and let those higher brain functions just melt away with every puff.

Ogion. If you're shaming the act of selling guns to Hitler, why are you supporting a candidate who sells guns to Saudi Arabia?

Putin's not a nice guy but do you even understand anything about Russia? Most Americans are ignorant about anything Russia and believe the few biased propaganda articles shared on Facebook painting Putin as nothing but a dictator. You're content assuming your country is doing no wrong and it's the evil dictators of other countries that are all bad.
Sorry but that's naieve and there's a reason so much of the world hates America.

"Hell, these people would have been happy to sell arms to Hitler."

We are outraged that YOUR beloved, deposed queen pushed our government to use our tax dollars to move arms to a roving band of apocalyptic psychopaths in the Middle East. YOUR heir apparent was DIRECTLY responsible for their rise and reign of terror.

How on Earth does this accusation hold any ground?

Hardly. I've been watching the rhetoric coming out of you Klan sympathizers for too long now. I've seen all the racist crap you put out there. I've seen how little you care for people outside of the US, and how much you despise people of color.

Yes, I understand considerably more about Russia than you. My family is from right next door, and my uncles died there in the gulags. I watch Russia very very closely The assassinations of Putin's opponents, the seizures of businesses, the criminalization of gays, the fake election results, all of it. All of it things Conservatives are thrilled to support. And in fact have supported all around the world. People like Hussein and every dictator in Latin America. THAT is why America is despised. And yeah, you'll find I have no patience for selling arms to Saudi Arabia. In fact, I use to live there and I've watched the US supplied gunships to slaughter Shia down in the eastern province. or Israel for that matter. Or Egypt, but every single President has done that going back decades.

What I am is out of patience with the racism and the sexism and the willful ignorance of the right, because it harms real people. My biracial trans kid is terrified, given how much hatefilled rhetoric Trump supporters have spewed out. Do they mean it? I have learned to take people at their word. You knew who you were supporting, an that you were making common cause with the Klan. So, yes, you have earned my enmity entirely.

And yeah, Trump is going to make people hate America even more

President Eden, you are one lying motherfucker. I guess George Bush and his wars that he fucking lied us into have totally escaped your memory? THAT is what caused the chaos in the Middle East. And yeah, George Bush sold a TON of arms to Saudi. In fact, the Bushes have longstanding business relationship with the house of Saud.

I am sick of the fucking lies. You think you can lie about any old shit, but there will be payback.

Are we healing yet? I only opened this thread 'cause I thought there would be healing.

No, we aren't and we aren't going to.

Come togetherrrrrrr.....
Right nowwww.....
Over me!

We don't like Bush either. They're a different half of the same whole as the Clintons.

But it was under Obama that ISIS was allowed to rise, and specifically it was during the Arab Spring, initiated while Clinton was Secretary of State, that produced the conditions in which ISIS came into being as we know them today. They were a fragmented, defeated segment of al-Qaida in Iraq before the Arab Spring, but we funded Syrian rebels and encouraged their proliferation while trying to topple Assad for the Saudi-Qatari pipeline to Europe. ISIS was the biggest and baddest bunch, and they ended up consolidating stronger than the other rebel groups.

The Trump and Sanders movement was a repudiation of the Bush-Clinton control of American politics.

I can respond more fully later, but I bet the reason you're kid is so terrified is because of the lies you are spreading and because of the oversimplified generalizations you paint half of Americans to be.
Telling your kid everyone is racist and transphobic is a perfect way to raise a kid that's not living in fear.

Ogion, your lumping together all conservatives into one monolithic group shows your bigoted short-sighted and prejudicial outlook. Everything you spew has the same hateful stereotyping that you are accusing others of. I don't even think you can really define what a conservative is. Furthermore, conservatism in one country is not the same as in another. Lastly, you seem to be more focused on anti-Americanism. The outward expansionism that you describe from the Bush-Clinton era is the opposite of what Trump was talking about.

Well, mexican gov. in particular, will do its best to keep US in friendly terms. I wonder however which will be limit. The wall business will be rather unimportant. But people might start get rather upset here when they start losing their jobs, or keep them with still less purchase power. Mex. economy already decreased 5% since thursday. Output? Still more migrants. Clap clap clap

peter, don't take this the wrong way, but when French presidential elections come along please please please please please could you lend your full support to Le Pen?

"peter, don't take this the wrong way, but when French presidential elections come along please please please please please could you lend your full support to Le Pen?"

Octavious. I think you are overestimating the importance of me letting out some steam on this webdip forum. But if I believe it would be effective in any way I should find myself some French speaking forum instead...

@'no passport' - that makes you very inward looking. It means you don't know much about the rest of the world.

It is like the 'world series' of baseball. Where only one country competes. To you 'the world' is the US.

And let me be clear, i am not criticising, i am describing. You're entirely entitled to all of this, many people in Ireland think only abou the irish economy, focus on local sports teams and travel up to the capital for the all-ireland finals if their team is in it.

They are also entirely entitled to it. The difference is, the US has the largest economy in the world, and the largest military spending by far. (Like more than the next 8 countries combined, ad those countries are all allies). These two facts combined mean other countries care about US foreign policy.

So having it determined by a group of voters who don't know or care about the rest of the world (ie these inward looking folk) is worrying.

But that said. Yes improved relations with russia is a good thing, isolationism (if trump follows through) is something which i prefer over Clinton's Hawkishness (though for the record, Jill Stien's policy plans for the middle east sounded much better to me personally). What people are worried about is a rise in crime inspired by Trump.

Women being sexually assaulted with cries of 'grab her by the pussy', muslims having their hijabs removed, and being told to go home (ironic when almost the entire population are immigrants). Mexican-Americans and African-Americans being bullied in schools across the country (by kids as young as 4)

All of this i've seen reported yesterday.

LGBT folk are afraid to go to school, people have been spray painting nazi symbols and Trump's name. And the phrase 'Make America White Again' (irony lost on the author i guess).

If you supported Trump, but don't support this violence, please do something. Don't deny or minimise it. IF you do support this kind of violence, well when we described Trump as a Fascist, and compared his red hatted MAGA's to Brown Shirts, when we have electoral success combined with street violence and intimidation. That looks an aweful like Germany in 1933 (also his election was based on similar economic issues)

The world will be watching.

@"The outward expansionism that you describe from the Bush-Clinton era is the opposite of what Trump was talking"

We'll soon see. Trump seems o change his message to suit his audience. Smarter than we give him credit for... But i've no idea which policies he actually intends to carry out, if any...

Tell me peter. When an American official visits Sweden, does the entire country pull down its pants and bend over, or is it just you?

"And a lot of you probably don't own passports or know much about any other country."

Lol, stereotype much? I've visited 15 other countries and lived in one for four years.

No leon, i'm not stereotypig, 'a lot' is accurate.

Quick research shows about 46% of americans own a valid passport.

Though that is not evenly distributed... I am willing to bet Trump supporters are less likely than Clinton supporters.

http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/

Good lord. On mobile so hopefully I'll remember later to look up sources for this. But Ora you just listed a bunch of examples of things that were outright fabrications to make Trump look bad. "Make America White Again" was photoshopped onto a picture of women wearing shirts that spelled out "Make America Great Again" at a Trump rally to make Trump supporters look racist. Idiot leftists with no capacity for critical thought took to death and rape threats (funny how we're the misogynists) for these women based off of a complete LIE.

Every single report that's come out so far of alleged violence by Trump supporters has been either fabricated (UL Lafayette: Muslim woman claims Trump supporters assaulted her, took her hijab and told her to go back to where she came from; she files police report and then retracts the whole story saying she made it up within 24 hrs. A gay man posted a bloodied image of himself saying he was attacked by Trump supporters, but it comes out he photoshopped stitches on his head in one of the after pictures and the attack never happened) or suspiciously not associated with a police report (SDSU and UIUC students both claiming to have witnessed similar assaults on social media; respective PDs comment from their official pages to say they haven't received any police reports about the incidents and the users then decline to file them).

Project Veritas uncovered a whole network of professional agitators for leftist causes who were sent into Trump rallies to stir shit up and get viewers to associate Trump with violence. Stories like these prove to be fabricated damn near every day. Yet you people continue not only to believe them unquestioningly but then further point the finger at us, when we've done nothing wrong. And then to add injury to insult, somehow we're the ignorant irrational morons and y'all are the enlightened empathetic reasonable people. Fucking unreal.

1984 and Brave New World had a baby and called it progressivism.

P.E. It doesn't matter how much you lie here. Everyone sees what a lying, racist, xenophobic, sexist, locker room juvenile, self-centered, unexperienced, isolationist, nationalist, idiot your beloved Clown is. And you are a moron believing in the Clown crap too.

peterlund is a fairly unamusing troll.

Leon. I concede to be "unamusing". That is probably because that you feel that there is a lot of thruth in what I convey...

Truth

"I kind of agree with Chaqa. Definitely his restatement in his second post: we didn't vote him because we were worried about Swedes and French looking down their noses at us while their country gets run over by an immigration crisis that we have the balls to stop from happening here. I care about the US's reputation around the world, but I couldn't give two fucks what Europe thinks about us."

YES^^^^

^ very intelligent indeed!

if your only retort is namecalling, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

This isolationist shit you are heading towards really concerns me.

After the WWI you turned isolationist and then Adolf Hitler came to power and he started WWII with no interference from the USA. Then you learned your lesson well and you stayed engaged all the time since then.

But now all you morons are sounding like isolationist fools all again. So now it is time to let the Putin ghost free so he can start next world war without any interference from your side??

More like we were isolationist w.r.t. Europe from the Revolution right up to the Cold War, except when y'all got the pot so stirred up we had to get involved. All the better to play empire with South America and the Pacific, doncha know.

I wrote "I concede to be "unamusing""

That was a fucking understatement! I am actually in grief. And I am terrified for the safety of my family and especially for my 2 kids a girl 11 years old and a boy 14 years old.

And you American kids are not any comfort at all. Every shit thing you say just make me more worried... :(

Let the Putin ghost free? Where do you people get this stuff? Pray tell, how does NOT wanting to destabilize the Middle East and give rise to horrors like ISIS, and NOT wanting to continue escalating the rising tensions between Russia and the US, equate to becoming isolationist?

I expect Trump to keep us involved abroad. But we've been footing an absurd amount of the bill for the primacy of the West, a large part of it wasted on a horrific loss of life in the Middle East for the benefit of Clinton's Saudi and Qatari masters, while our own infrastructure crumbles and economic issues at home get ignored. Wanting to fix that isn't isolationist. It's just not completely fucking insane.

As an austrian social liberal I have to say to you peterlund, just take a deep breath and calm down. Gosh, you are overreacting. Stop being emotional and think with your brain.

The US is still a beacon of democracy, the fear that Trump will take over with an iron fist is overhyped and if you have a closer look you'll see that even if he tries to do that there are many ways he is gonna stopped.

Your two children will be just fine and have nothing to fear from the US. Also, if you look for comfort on the internet, that is a bit tricky. The internet is a great place to gather together all different sorts of ideas and mash them together to find out what is best for mankind. Comforting a few people isn't high on this priority list I think.