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abgemacht (840 D (G))
08 Jul 16 UTC
(+1)
Mario Machine Learning on Twitch
https://www.twitch.tv/mikseri123321

If anyone is interested; we're doing some basic optimizations to get a computer to play Mario
2 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4844 D Mod (G))
06 Jul 16 UTC
(+4)
Turning Over a New Leaf
I just want to take a moment to say that I've been so proud of this forum in the last few days. The entire world has been buzzing with insanely controversial, easily polarizing political events in the past few days and we haven't had a vitriolic, stupidly biased thread so far. Kudos to everyone.
23 replies
Open
Ogion (4375 D)
08 Jul 16 UTC
Weekend sitter needed for two early gunboat games
Hey folks,
I'm heading out for a weekend, and I have two 24 hour phase games that will need some builds and the like entered. Should be pretty easy.
Any takers?
2 replies
Open
ssorenn (3242 D (G))
29 Jun 16 UTC
I'm in London for two days.
Where should I eat ??
8 replies
Open
glo2018 (1302 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
one more person
i have a live game starting in 2 hours called Amazing game (http://95.211.128.12/webdiplomacy/board.php?gameID=180862) i just need one more player, please join.
1 reply
Open
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
How much would building an island for a million people in international waters cost?
I'm talking excluding living supplies etc. Just building the island. Alternatively, an island chain will do too.

Just some big numbers-math for fun. Anyone wants to do an estimate?
Jamiet99uk (35 D)
29 Jun 16 UTC
Well for a start it depends how deep the water is.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
The cheapest place in international waters.
Jamiet99uk (35 D)
29 Jun 16 UTC
Why do you want to build your own island? Are you Karl Stromberg?
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Let me google Karl Stromberg and get back to you.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Yes, I'm Karl Stromberg.
abgemacht (840 D (G))
29 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
And here we witness the thread in which steephie jumps the shark.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
29 Jun 16 UTC
How much space do a million people need? Will the island be free floating or anchored to the ground? Can't we 'just' push the sea back like they do in Holland?

So an island is one thing, but i kinda assume you actually want a city. Like skyscrapers and living space. As opposed to a rural island (there are lots of those, inhabitated and uninhabited...) there is also a guy who has built his own island (floating on wood, supported by recycled bottles, tied together by the roots of trees - which thrive in salt water, can't remember the name if those trees - but i'm not sure how many people could live on his island...)

So the question can be reduced to how much does a skyscraper cost, plus hiw many people can live there, plus how much does it take to get it to float... (And multiply up based on target number of a million)

So lets me do some basic research in the average skyscraper...
orathaic (1009 D (B))
29 Jun 16 UTC
Lets take the Russia Tower as an example, 350,000 m^2 and a price tag of $3 billion.

And average house in the UK is about 76m^2, lets say 75, and houses 4 people. So lets say 20m^2 per person (and assuming living and working space together, and ignoring extra things like space inbetween living spaces)

That Russia tower could comfortably house 17,500 people. So we'll need about 57 of them to fit 1 million.

Next i'll need to aproximate. Double the price to build on the sea. So i get a total of $342 Billion (57 * 3b * 2)

Now reality check; that seems reasonable at only $342 thousand dollars per person. So i'm going to assume this estimate is actually very low given that no-one is actually building on the sea; if the price ended up being reasonable then people would probably have tried it...

Also everything costs more when you are doing it for the first time. So you can add on at least another $300 Billion in research and development, extra building costs, etc.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
@abge: Don't worry, you only get to see the worst side of me here ;-)
PM me for the better parts of me but I'm sure you're being funny.

"How much space do a million people need?"
No clue. You tell me.

"Will the island be free floating or anchored to the ground?"
Whatever is cheapest and guarantees that it remains in international waters.

"Can't we 'just' push the sea back like they do in Holland?"
Not if it's claimed territory. I guess you could start with a small island and make that bigger the Dutch way..
I wonder how long it would take if you 'let nature take its course' partially, using cohesion of sand in certain plants for instance.

I suppose the point is creating dry land, so if you can keep the ocean outside while the island remains below sea level, that's fine too.
DeathLlama8 (524 D)
29 Jun 16 UTC
For one million people this almost definitely won't be useful, but maybe you could look into Chinese dredging in the South China Sea?
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
@ora: Interesting estimate. So for the first time building it, you're already at $642 thousand per person. That means that if someone did this for profit, he or she probably needs to ask well over a million for one person for a moderate profit, because of the financing costs (even Bill Gates would have to take a huge loan and either paying interest over loans or spending the funds to get the investors will be very expensive, unless we assume it's a government project which somehow sounds even more unrealistic than a private initiative to me), the fact that selling them all would be a pain too etc.

As for why it's not done yet, finding a million people willing to spend a million dollars to literally live in the middle of nowhere is hard enough, but you're also in international waters. We're completely ignoring life supplies, the fact that you need military protection because no country needs to protect you, transferring, somehow establishing some sort of government or something..
There's a ridiculous amount of extra costs, risks and complications. So I think it can be a realistic estimate and still not happening yet. I don't really know whether it's indeed a realisitc estimate.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
@DeathLlama8: I'm Dutch and the Dutch are the worldwide experts in claiming land from the sea, so I don't need to look as far as China I think :-)
Unless there's something in particular I should know?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
29 Jun 16 UTC
So you can start small, build one of my recommended 57, and see how it goes.

Probably wouldn't look like a skyscraper, as building up only makes sense when the land area is a limiting factor. But in international waters you can spread out as much as you want.

Reasons why this isn't happening may include - it is a risk to go into internaional waters and investors would rather avoid risk.

Places this is happening - look at the wealthiest parts of the middle east. Qatar, Bahrain, the UAE, places where they build islands or peninsulas and put up skyscrapers and cities... I don't have costs, also money becomes a very different thing when you're rolling in oil wealth...
steephie22 (182 D (S))
29 Jun 16 UTC
They still do that within their borders though, don't they?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
29 Jun 16 UTC
They are, still might be a good example.
Thucydides (869 D (B))
30 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
I think it will cost roughly one million dollars,
ckroberts (3548 D)
30 Jun 16 UTC
If you have access to the right kind of equipment (nuclear weapons?), you could pierce the sea floor where the water is shallow, the oceanic crust is thin, and the mantle is hot. The resulting volcanic island could then be covered with sand and soil.

If this approach proved viable but slow, you could create a ring of islands and dredge sand to fill all or part of a central lagoon. Irregular shapes would be more appealing in terms of living conditions (everybody could have waterfront property) but less so in terms of architecture.
ckroberts (3548 D)
30 Jun 16 UTC
Of course, blowing up nuclear weapons drilled deep into the earth's core would probably kill millions of people, not to mention all the whales.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
30 Jun 16 UTC
i believe that could qualify as a violation of various test ban treaties... which you may not have signed, but those that have don't really want you doing it either.
MajorMitchell (1033 D)
02 Jul 16 UTC
You've seen those episodes of Grand Designs where the "builders" describe their dream home, then give their budget and completion date & Kevin has his " never going to happen on that budget in that timeframe " look....
Smokey Gem (189 D)
04 Jul 16 UTC
ASk Google they are building one already ?? No need for army protection when you have the worlds info by the balls..
CptMike (4309 D)
04 Jul 16 UTC
In international waters, we can consider island cost is not far from cruise ships. Roughly cruise ships cost 200,000,000 us$ for 4000 passagers and crue members. For 1,000,000 people should be some optimisation. But the island is also expected to be more autonomous. Let's say it compensates. Global cost should be around 50 billions us$.
Floodgates (2086 D)
05 Jul 16 UTC
I think it would cost at least 1 million dollars.
Nebuchadnezzar (483 D)
05 Jul 16 UTC
I can build this for you for $10.
Nebuchadnezzar (483 D)
05 Jul 16 UTC
$15 for island chain.
Nebuchadnezzar (483 D)
05 Jul 16 UTC
(+1)
Since the request is nothing more than island and there is no other requisites, the islands will be located in my bathroom build by a handful of sands collected from the local beach.

The costs associated is only for my profit.
bo_sox48 (4844 D Mod (G))
06 Jul 16 UTC
I spent two months living on a sandbar years back. It was public property but nobody ever came out there.
leon1122 (175 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Private-Island
Vecna (957 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
I think the more interesting question is....HOW are you going to build an island that can keep the weight of a million people and their required infrastructure afloat...in the middle of the oceans (where shallow water pretty much does not happen.How do you stop it from being carried away, or smashed to bits by storms/tsunami's/pirates/angry Koreans/extra sized alien goldfish etc etc.

Also does the island need to be self sufficient, or do you bring in resources from the mainland on a very regular basis? Both will be off the charts expensive for a million people if its an island very far away from everything. Just creating drinking water for that many people will require some pretty clever solutions, or a gigantic investment. For transportation on the island we clearly have to go with jetpacks, so theres that fuel requirement for those....

Realizing this idea is almost as hard as starting a moon colony
Vecna (957 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
Btw steephie, why dont we ever see you at dutch F2F games?
steephie22 (182 D (S))
06 Jul 16 UTC
"Btw steephie, why dont we ever see you at dutch F2F games?"

Hmm...
One reason is I'm busy but that's kind of cheap. The other might be that I don't want to explain to people that I'm traveling an hour or more to play a board game with strangers.

Third and definitely least, I'm not sure if I feel like it..

Sorry, I have no non-cheap answers for you.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
06 Jul 16 UTC
To be fair to myself, I *have* been very busy and now I'm free so if one happened soon I would definitely consider :-)
LeonWalras (419 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
(+1)
"I don't want to explain to people that I'm traveling an hour or more to play a board game with strangers."

I tell people it's the board game of the Alpha Nerds. They see me rollin', they hatin'.
steephie22 (182 D (S))
06 Jul 16 UTC
Oh I couldn't care less about what other people think about it, but why is a tricky question for me. Sure, to have fun, but if I travel somewhere to do something for one or two days, I feel like there are better options too. Hardly a good argument by itself, but if you consider that I don't know for sure that I'll enjoy that (although it seems likely :P) and that I was very busy was enough reason to not do it before.

Like I said, if one happens this holiday, I'll definitely consider. After that I'm starting at university and I'm sorry but I'll probably enjoy a day there more than a day playing Diplomacy, so then I might not consider so much :-)
steephie22 (182 D (S))
06 Jul 16 UTC
Messed up my grammar there, but should be clear.. sort of.
Nebuchadnezzar (483 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
Why would someone want to own a private island?

Well simply not to deal with all those other poor peasants in the world... :P
Jamiet99uk (35 D)
06 Jul 16 UTC
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/


37 replies
Valis2501 (2057 D (G))
04 Jul 16 UTC
(+2)
The Boston Massacre / webDip F2F tournament
As above, within this intertubelink:
https://sites.google.com/site/bostonmassacrediplomacy/tournament-info

4 replies
Open
Halls of Mandos (644 D)
05 Jul 16 UTC
World Game
It's that time again!
I was thinking of starting a world game some time early August when I get home. Post below if interested:
0 replies
Open
TrPrado (441 D Mod)
17 May 16 UTC
NBA Finals
We're now at the Conference finals for both West and East, and the first game was last night. What do you guys think? Could this be the Thunder's year to win it all?
196 replies
Open
Hamilton Brian (807 D (B))
01 Jul 16 UTC
(+4)
Happy Canada Day
Someone had to start this thread. Happy 149th Birthday!
9 replies
Open
KingCyrus (512 D)
27 Jun 16 UTC
Special Replacement Needed
Good evening webDip. I am in need of a replacement for a special rule UN game.
10 replies
Open
paulyork64 (351 D)
27 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
Brexit swiftly followed by Engxit
Congratulations iceland. You were great. We were garbage. I will support your campaign to be a supply centre on the diplomacy map.
14 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
01 Jul 16 UTC
(+2)
taos is back!
Hi !
I am back to the game after more than a year.
If you know me so please join my game and if you don't know me join too.
Many changes since i was inactive?
4 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2057 D (G))
23 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
WDC 2016 #weaselmoot Live Thread
The 2016 World Diplomacy Championships are happening!

http://www.windycityweasels.org/wdc2016
https://twitter.com/WindyCityWeasel
80 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
22 Jun 16 UTC
Any exercise in hypotheticals
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160621-i-have-never-felt-sexual-desire

What do these people want? And are their demands reasonable?
39 replies
Open
jengamaster (2119 D)
23 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Why do you simply save and not ready?
Unless you always save, or you always ready, which conditions lead to you choosing to do one or the other?
22 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
28 Jun 16 UTC
Game of thrones - S6 - reactions
Discuss.
20 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (250 D)
20 May 16 UTC
Vegetarians, Vegans, et al.
I am just getting started with this lifestyle change. I am leaning towards a whole foods plant based diet as in Plant Pure Nation. Any suggestions of things to try? Recipes? etc.
110 replies
Open
????? (128 D)
27 Jun 16 UTC
Question: Can you message during builds?
I am new to the website. I don't seem to be able to message during the build phase?
2 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (35 D)
16 Jun 16 UTC
Mafia XXI Sign-Up Thread
This thread is for signing up to play PROHIBITION WARS, which is the 21st game of Forum Mafia. There are up to 22 slots available however the game can be played with less than this. I would ideally like 20 participants at least.
233 replies
Open
WDC 2016 (0 D X)
25 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
WDC 2016 Live coverage Sunday
Live coverage of World Diplomacy Championship Final Table.
9:00Am Sunday (East coast USA time)
Twitch.tv/diplomacycast
@DiplomacyCast for more info
16 replies
Open
y2kjbk (5402 D (G))
24 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Higher stakes gunboat games
Stop on in for higher stakes gunboat games.
6 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
14 Apr 16 UTC
(+5)
public commentary gunboat - peanut gallery
gameID=177609

read the rules inside before you post!
218 replies
Open
CommanderByron (869 D (S))
15 Jun 16 UTC
Copa America?
Anyone watching? GO ECUADOR!
21 replies
Open
DammmmDaniel (100 D)
22 Jun 16 UTC
TALH/Not dying/getting assaulted by who know what in college
Help me WebDip! I got a really bad feeling about this...
28 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
04 Jun 16 UTC
Zaldron Attack Cruiser spotted off the Starboard bow
RED ALERT!
272 replies
Open
Blaz_Adam (81 D X)
26 Jun 16 UTC
Live game
Med quickie in 1 hr 30 (ish) need 3 more people. Anyone interested?
Also is anyone up for playing a live game this time is 2 days? Classic or med map I don't mind
2 replies
Open
marze1992 (383 D)
25 Jun 16 UTC
new live game
i create a new live game it will start in 2 hours (23.15). the name is liveforlive, join it if u you want! i try to play live three times and for three times reached only six players.
1 reply
Open
Ikaneko (113 D)
25 Jun 16 UTC
Any takers for Fall of the American Empire IV (ID:#180484)
Please come and join to make a game out of it!

Bet is 10 w/draw sized scoring.
1 reply
Open
PonkWilliams (177 D)
24 Jun 16 UTC
WebDiplomacy policy on restarting a game
I'm sure this type of topic has happened before. One of the players in "Friendly Mediterranean Variation" managed to 'ready' without any units being ordered. All units were held. Major screw up. Hurts the balance of the game. We are still kind of discussing the ramifications and what to do about the moves... but is it possible to either fix the moves for him? or restart the game with everyone playing the same countries?
4 replies
Open
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