In his defense, How is he supposed to "know" I was town.

Just to respond more fully to ND's outright lie that he "didn't push" his bullshit claim against Peterlund during that game:

@ND: Your claim that you'd "proved" Peterlund, the inventor, was lying about being the inventor, was on page 45. After that you went back to this claim multiple times:

Page 46: "##Vote peterlund Until someone can tell me if my point is incorrect somehow. Pretty sure I caught him in a fake claim."

Page 47: "@Chaqa: Tell me how Peter is "town" after I caught him in a fake claim?"

Page 47: "Well I have already proven Peter is fake claiming."

Page 49: "I have also exposed Peterlund's fake claim."

Page 50: "If you read my EON post (peter section) I detail how it is a fake claim using his own statements."

Page 55: "I've already caught Peter in a fake claim and his play is scummy as hell. Why is he getting a pass here?"

Page 61: "His claim has been proven (by me) to be false."

##VOTE ND
This is pretty scummy.

Can we just keep playing from current numbers and redraft 3 new scum?

So seven (7) repetitions of your assertion that Peter was a liar, and that you had "proved" this (when in actual fact Peterlund was telling the TRUTH) does not count as "pushing" ???

Yeah, right.

I suggest that it would be reasonable, as a matter of policy, to subject any claim ND makes to twice the scrutiny of anyone else's claims, in any future game, on the basis of this behaviour.

##VOTE ND

##VOTE END

Jamiet your being too hard on ND. he is alot better as scum than as town to be fair. ND wins as scum alot. M18 is one of the few exceptions

If the last two games are anything to go by, town ND behaves in exactly the same way as scum ND, that's my point.

bb has once again proven my inverse proportionality of skill as town vs skill as scum. Example, ND.

it wasnt his best game but Peterlunds claim and playstyle was just very hard to get used too.

If you're a competent townie, it's much more difficult to appear like your town self. If you lurk heavily or spew incomprehensible bullshit, your game doesn't involve actually searching for scum, so you can just do exactly what you always do. Then there are people like Vash, who suck regardless of role, and people like me who are perfect.

#FuckGhug

I dont know if i'm better as scum. I think im better as a vt than PR however.

I wouldn't know personally. I've only ever been vanilla town or vanilla scum, and the times I was scum I had less time to dedicate than as town.

Still making excuses for the time I caught your ass?

One of those times I had a little more time available and you couldn't tell shit.

@Jamiet: Now go back and count the amount of times I pushed you in M20. Compare the amount of times and cases I wrote about you in this game to the amount I did it this game. K, thx.

I wrote about you in that game to the amount I did in this game with peter or w/e. (edit)

I am pretty good as town too. My angel game and vt game in M11 were pretty awesome. So I don't agree that I am better as scum then town.

despite being regularly scum read this game I think DeathLlama played really well. He hadnt been in a forum mafia game since before I have started he was GM for M15. I was cool seeing his lines of questioning.

And in hindsight, his questions to me probably helped to assert town vibes from both of us. I cant imagine a scum player asking so many logical questions and probing the way DL did. That being said, I dont always do the best job of trusting what seems like obvious towny vibes.

I also think that for the most part vash played pretty well, and so did Chaqa. I think they had much rougher Day 1's than in past games. Bo played alot more like his M19 town self, he was a great supporter of reinforcing who the clears were.

All that said, I think virtually every town player did their part to assert their townyness. DemonRHK was spot on with the grenade, I can honestly say I wouldnt have thumbed Ogion. Peterlund was spot on, in surviving an onslaught of misguided town who distrusted him and in the end he gifted an item to someone who he read accurately as town. Vecna accurately wiped out xorx for us, so I cant really criticise him either.

@Maniac, you really didnt do a whole lot this game but you also didnt do enough to be widely scumread and mislynched.

@HR I think you are giving yourself an awful lot of credit. Sure you are good at the game when you want to be. You certainly have changed town meta here however for yourself. you had a very "lead from behind" playstyle. Catching scum simply by letting them pile on you and try to gain steam on a lynch.

Early on you voted for me and left your vote there the duration of the phase despite me being widely townread. I have to ask, did you vote me for personal reasons or did you really chalk up my thoughts that you were town as a indication I was scum who knew too much.

Because personally... I kinda felt like the pressure from Chaqa and HR Day 1, was more just you didnt want to have to read a long game where I talked too much.

"town ND behaves in exactly the same way as scum ND"

I would argue that that is the only way you can ever be successful as scum, which if you are in for the long haul, it is inevitable will happen from time to time.

While that is true, it actually should theoretically be easier to be a rookie scum in that style because theres no meta to work with.

I feel like the next time I am scum, I will really have my work cut out for me. I tend to lay everything on the line to prove my townyness.

I feel that the meta here does tend to be anti-rookie for that reason. ("We can't read them; let's kill them")

the veterans dont really like lynching the veterans. M20 is an exception. they lynched Maniac D1 and still lost anyway. he was scum even

We never lynch veteran lurkers and veterans are primarily lurkers because we never lynch veteran lurkers. It's circular. Newbie lurkers are totally fucked.

This ^

Yeah, these games have become very very meta driven at this point.

HR needs to let us all make alts so we can all be someone unknown.

Note:
RHK had played before, but it was after the game I GM'd and I didn't really watch or read those games at all, so my mind always assumed he was at least kind of new. But at one point I was considerably willing to defend him because reading into him I just couldn't call him scum. DDaniel did at least pretty well as scum, as I helped take heat off him D1 because I didn't think he was scum for the longest time.

@ ND you were less active this game. As a proportion of your activity, I'd say it comes out fairly similar. Pushing your bullshit against Peterlund and lying about having proved anything was your principal activity in the latter half of this game.