I don't know where you're getting this thing about me changing the subject. The subject was the morality of a football club vs the world of football at large. I've given examples of why I think the world of football lacks morality. And as you say European ultras are very often racist, so the fact that a club doesn't have a racist ultras but in fact vocally anti-racist ones speaks to its morality.

I don't get your point.

JEccles. As you lack geographic ties to a certain club in England. you can also stick with teams that you think play the football you want to see. In the PL I have supported Arsenal (Henry bergkamp time), Tottenham, Everton and currently Liverpool. In my own league this would be unthinkable, but in another league I can base my choice on likeableness. :)

^ aaaaaaargh. That's worse than supporting Man City.

...Arsenal and Tottenham??

...Everton and Liverpool?!?

Build a bonfire, build a bonfire
Put MrcsAurelius on the top...

Bring on the league cup final today!!

There is a quaint little football chant favoured at Plymouth Argyll, and indeed many other grounds, that sums up the feelings towards people such as MrcsAurelius in a more subtle and elegant fashion than I could ever manage.

http://m.fanchants.com/football-songs/plymouth_argyle-chants/wnker-9/

Also, this is one of the coolest websites out there. If all else fails, Eccles, choose a team based on their songs!

Haha.. the fact that you can switch teams based on likeableness is a perk of following an extra league beside the one in my own country. :)

Atleti has awesome commercials. Here is one I could find with little dialogue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBgfbtALZLw

Putin33: Many Atleti commercials deal with racism and suffering; none celebrate right-wing sentiments like you suggest.

I still can't figure out how I "changed the subject".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jes%C3%BAs_Gil

"He installed a bust of former dictator, Franco, in the town hall and was known for walking the streets of the town shouting abuse at prostitutes and homeless people.[1] His mayorship was popular enough for him to be re-elected three times.[1]"

"Gil was famous and controversial for his extreme right-wing political views, summed up in a unique brand of foulmouthed, low-brow populism[5] punctuated by self-aggrandizing,[6] sexist,[7] homophobic,[8][9] racist,[10][11] xenophobic and otherwise derogatory[12] remarks and, occasionally, by pre-democratic nostalgia.[13]"

Oh yeah and the guy was head of Athletico Madrid for 16 years. But the team is anti-racist is it?

Nevermind the widespread fascist paraphernalia seen at their stadium and the surrounding areas. Or the widespread use of fascist salutes.

I almost get Mrcs Auerelius. ......almost

I live in Australia therefore am a second class citizen due to my football( soccer ) passion.

I have supported liverpool since King Keeny ( Playing not managing ). In this time Craig Jonhson ( austalian palyed for liverpool).

Having said that Tim Cahill Everton super star is Austalian and scores some incredible goals . See last world cup vs Netherlands.

So Though I love Timmy I hate him as well..at least he has retired form that blue tem who shall not be named again.


Football like any mass entertainemnt can be hijacked for propaganda purposes its hte motive of the propagandists not the football fans that should be questioned.

Putin33: That man was a corrupt asshole that ruined the club's finances and sent the team into second division for the first time since before the Civil War. No Atleti fan has any respect for him. He won municipal elections not in Madrid (in the middle of the Peninsula) but in Marbella, a tourist-filled beach town in southern Andalusia.

There is no fascist paraphernalia around the Vicente Calderón. Have you ever been to Madrid? You really need to stop talking about what you know nothing about.

This is the sort of message put out by the club to confront racism:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rbqq4fAT_X0
Oh, wait, you won't understand it because you don't speak Spanish.

Would you consider it me changing the subject if I brought up the grotesque, violent logo of Rayo's ultras?
http://bukaneros.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/logo-bvk.png

"No Atleti fan has any respect for him."

Really so how did he manage to run your club for 16 years? Other fan bases would have led boycotts of their club chairman if he was this egregious. What was Atletico attendance I wonder?

"There is no fascist paraphernalia around the Vicente Calderón. Have you ever been to Madrid? You really need to stop talking about what you know nothing about."

So Phil Ball is lying then? Was the film edited?

http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/99-Crowd-control-&-policing/3673-nod-and-a-wink

I know you have a hard time reading anything I post but I actually already posted about the fascist iconography at Calderon.

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=rbqq4fAT_X0"

Oh gee an ad by Coca-Cola, that somehow negates the numerous incidents I already referenced regarding racial taunting by Atleti fans, incidents which led to heavy fines. Yes sir, all of that is instantaneously erased.

"Oh, wait, you won't understand it because you don't speak Spanish."

Not fluently but I got the gist of it as I've studied Spanish for a considerable number of years. How do you know what languages I do and do not speak again?

"Would you consider it me changing the subject if I brought up the grotesque, violent logo of Rayo's ultras?"

Oh no, a cartoon of pirate. That's somehow equivalent to getting fined 10,000 Euros for calling a man a monkey and telling his son that they hope his father dies.

""No Atleti fan has any respect for him."

Really so how did he manage to run your club for 16 years?"

If you knew the case of mexican team "Guadalajara" and his owner Vergara, respect for those fan bases that really can force a chairman to resign. I'm afraid, though, there are many cases in which it's easier to say it than to do i,

Atleti hate Gil so much that his son has been the chief executive and majority owner. Yeah I'm sure they're rioting over that fact. Just like they were pissed that his father got them into the CL.

sorry, putin, I won't defend JECE but.... yo la neta no sé y no me quiero meter en su discusión..
sólo diré un par de cosas:

¡que chinguen a su madre el américa y los fachas del frente!

...y aunque no soy fan del atleti:

¡arriba los pumas y Sabina, Simeone y los hinchas chingones del atleti!

Putin33: I lost my response already, but really: cut it out. Gil owned the club; there was little the fandom could do when they did not own the club.

Ultras suck; about a quarter of Rayo ultras and of Atlético ultras have criminal records. There is no reason to defend them.

I'm sick of your inaccurate, tangential and inflammatory comments, so I'm not going to bother to reply further.

Except Rayo ultras (like the bukaneros) wave communist flags, Atleti ultras do monkey chants and sing racist songs.

Nothing I said was tangential or inaccurate. I've backed up everything I've said and replied to every response.