Canadian here. I don't think I know anyone in possession of a gun, but both my parents went to university.

I suspect there are a number of gun owners in rural areas of Canada (i.e. the great unwashed). These would be primarily for hunting and keeping coyotes off the farm. For the most part, I would expect them to be shotguns and thus particularly difficult to use in a mass shooting.

Almost everyone I know with guns went to university, there's not much of a relation there.
I live in Alberta/Saskatchewan area which is quite different from the east though.

Depends on which east, I guess. All my lot live in Newfie, which I dare say is a little different to other parts of Canada.

@jamie,

"If gun ownership is not the cause of gun violence, then what *is* the cause? What drives American gun owners to kill, where their cousins in other nations manage to exercise restraint?"

I don't think there's a single answer. Most American gun violence happens in the inner city, much of it black people killing other black people. Our inner cities are far more toxic than those in most other countries, and the reasons are extremely complicated. Obviously, our history of slavery and foot-dragging on civil rights for a century is a big component; one can then dig into more detail on the specific steps along the way that transformed those behaviors into urban disaster. (See also: US incarceration rate and that of the world, compared).

Then you have the mass shooters. This is a relatively small blip on the overall homicide rate; we're talking about it because it garners far more news attention, for reasons having to do with what makes exciting news. (Good luck ever seeing the latest gang shooting in Chicago on the national news). Nevertheless, it's still fair to point out that the US is in the upper level of countries when ranked by mass killing deaths per capita. (See http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/ ). I think that this particular killing actually acutely highlighted one of the real reasons for this: all the notoriety and attention accorded to the killers, which is extremely appealing to people who feel they are life's losers and will never be heard. So I think it's a kind of cycle that has erupted recently (notice that it has trended sharply upward relatively lately, despite gun culture being an extremely old aspect of American culture).

"Most American gun violence happens in the inner city, much of it black people killing other black people."

Also, a lot of it is white cops shooting black people too.

"Also, a lot of it is white cops shooting black people too."

A vastly smaller amount, but that is another problem, yes.

"all the notoriety and attention accorded to the killers, which is extremely appealing to people who feel they are life's losers and will never be heard."

If someone did the same in Europe, they would get the same attention. Yet it rarely happens here. I don't think the ease by which Americans can legally acquire weapons can be understated in such discussions. Yes, there's other problems, and of course it's always the bad apples committing the heinous crimes. But I think it's safe to say those people would be less inclined to act upon those urges were it not so easy to get their hands on guns. Most of the shooters aren't people who would otherwise be labelled as "criminals". Those are disturbed people who can get that coverage because it's so easy for them to do so. If someone in a western european country feels bad and decides their life isn't worth anything anymore, they wouldn't shoot up a school. Simply because it's not easy to find guns for them.

EvW,

As the link I shared showed, it *does* happen in several western European countries at a higher rate than in the US (though their populations are small, so one has to be careful with sample size). I'm sure gun availability makes this easier, but my point is that that's hardly sufficient. The cycle happens to have started here. It hasn't most places in Europe, thank God. Let us hope that it does not.

Which stat are you referring to? As I see the US homicide rate is way higher than that of the european nations cited. The only (european) country exceeding usa's mass shooting fatality rate is Switzerland by a small margin and Norway, which I believe to be boosted by Breivik. As the article stated:
"We’ll note that all of these countries had one or two particularly big attacks and have relatively small populations, which have pushed up their per-capita rates. In Norway, that single attack in 2011 left 67 dead by gunfire (plus additional bomb casualties). Finland had two attacks, one that killed eight and one that killed 10. And Switzerland had one incident that killed 14."
The choices of those countries is also peculiar. As far as I know there have not been any mass shootings In Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg (small as it is), Scotland, Italy, Spain, Sweden etc...

That's what I said, EvW.

@ Octavious: Why do you think, since Dunblane, the UK has not had a major "mass shooting" incident of the kind that happens in the USA many times each year?

@ Octavious: "There is no shortage of guns in Britain."

For balance, I should say that I know exactly two people who own a gun they are allowed to keep on their own property. Both are farmers, with valid shotgun licences. It should be noted that legally owning a pistol is (rightly) almost impossible in the UK, and that the concept of normal members of the public owning guns for "self defence" is virtually unknown in the UK - in case Octavious had given a different impression.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQQK9UIWsAAQHRT.png

@ Jamie

You don't consider that business in Cumbria a few years back to be a mass shooting incident? You don't count those few tragic events where a parent shot their family before shooting themselves? How strict a definition are we sticking to here? In terms of people being shot in a college, no, but I'd argue the setting of the crime is the least important detail.

Members of the public owning guns for self defense is known in the UK, but almost exclusively within inner city gang culture. Legal gun ownership is very much about owning a tool to do a job, or take part in sport.

Isn't it time that Congress made mental illness illegal?

Here's an interesting post.

http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

For those interested in legally owning handguns in the UK, choice is rather limited. However my local firearms shop offers these possibilities.


Available very soon a very limited supply of Taurus LBR’s, only in .38/.357.

These will be on a first come first severed basis so please don't wait to long to reserve yours.

As you all know these revolvers are not being made any more so if you do want one this could well be your last chance!

GSG 1911 .22 Long Barrelled Pistols should also be with us shortly, limited numbers so get your name down quick.

Price for the gun will be £495 and spare mags will be £25 each.

"These will be on a first come, first severed basis"
It's a trap. Is this how the UK deal with all prospective gun owners? No wonder no one owns a gun there.

Lol! No, no trap. They are perfectly legal. The long barrel combined with a balance rod stuck out the back makes the pistol ever so slightly longer, end to end, than 60cms. This makes it look a tad silly, but it gets it around those pesky gun laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awgs0burFTk&feature=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC03hmS1Brk