The Save button tends to stick. You have to push it hard.

Randomizer: As far as I am aware, we have no bugs like you describe. Every time I look in to the order logs for a user who misordered and didn't expect to, it turns out to be user error rather than software error.

It may be poor design error where the pixel read occurs because there is no spacing between the choices. But I have seen repeatedly the highlighted choice in the drop down menu is not the one that appears in the box afterwards.

For instance highlighting move and having hold appear. Also the board needs to be refreshed because after it appears as hold, I can not alter that order with a different choice.

You can't use the directional arrows on your keyboard to select choices. You need to actually click your options.

Are you using the site on mobile? What browser are you using? You should never need a page refresh to chance your orders.

Tru: The site should be usable via keyboard too. The orders dropdowns are just regular dropdowns provided by your browser.

I can change the drop down selection with arrows in chrome on desktop

Nope. If I use my keyboard directional arrows to change from a support order to move order or hold to a support, it doesn't change the next textbox.

Whenever I stab, I always wait for the other party to respond. To me, an individual's reaction in a moment of crisis can give you useful information on how they will move in the next few turns, and how you should approach their moves. Their tone (emotional vs. logical etc.), and responses (or lack there off) can tell you if the relationship can be reconciled quickly, or if they will hold a grudge the rest of the game, or if they will throw all their units your way out of revenge.

To me, those conversations directly after a stab between you and ALL other players are when you need to be careful with your words, and when you really need to note other folks way of thinking through their words.

I don't see a positive side of initiating the conversation. But I would love to hear someone's thoughts who disagrees with me.

You're reasoning makes sense Tom, but there's also a risk of a stand-off where both parties have that logic, or one party takes the silence as a message they don't want to talk at all.

In addition, the ability to steer a conversation is paramount in press, and it's just strictly easier to steer a conversation towards or away from topics or tones if you initiate the press.

I recently stabbed a guy because he had muted me. Can't plan with someone who has you muted.

That is true. But I think after the stab it is less important to steer the press where you would like it to go, and much more important to learn where THEY want to steer the press. How they want the conversation to go tells me more that me initiating the conversation.

As far as the standoff goes. I don't have a real solution. I find people generally say something if they are stabbed, but if they don't I likely won't initiate converstation unless I feel from the other nations, that something is soon to not go my way.

I mean, that's not obviously wrong, and probably works well. In general though I try to keep talking either way on either end. Especially in the opening it can be much easier to sort of wave it away. Breaking S01 DMZs etc.

True. I was thinking more of a late game stab versus an early one that is minor in comparison. I may reach out more willingly in a minor stab. But a large one, with someone I have been allied with for several years - I will wait to see how they respond.

Ah. I feel like there's less communication for late game stabs because normally it's obvious. It's either cutting someone out of the draw or going for your solo run. When the reasons are obvious, and the possible outcome on the game and each other's position, there's less to say for both sides IMO. Whereas I was thinking more about early game stabs where it's not obvious so much why or the outcome thereof.

Also the format can be a little different. I would never consider not talking to someone in F2F unless it was much more drastic than something that happened online.

Tom, can you give us an example where you stabbed someone and then just said nothing and received nothing afterwards?

Unrelated, but I was tempted by your game but I'm scared to join a game seriously with the second round of the ODC tournament coming up relatively soon™

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82172&msgCountryID=2&rand=84263#chatboxanchor

That game is an example. As Italy I stabbed (relatively unsuccessfully) France in spring 1904. I waited for a response after my moves, and got a reasonably logical one (non emotional - no grudge) I think it made it easier that my stab wasn't effective, but by his response I knew that I could work with him still, and quickly switched gears back east, just enough to get him to trust me an allow myself a second opening to get a more effective foothold against him.

If my game doesn't fill up I'll start another. I'll be sure to shoot you a message when I do. Its been a long time for me to play a game. I'll likely be rusty.

Interesting stuff. And please do.

What would you say to me directly after you stabbed me? How would your message read?

There's a couple different scenarios, legit or made-up as an excuse:

A) "I thought you were gonna stab me so I moved first. Sorry about that. I know I shouldn't have done that so here's the plan..."

B) "We were uneven in SC and I felt uncomfortable, now we're more even and thus we're all good now, so here's the plan..."

C) "I'm cutting you out of the draw...sorry. But if you want you can help me solo against the people who are encouraging and allowing this here's a plan..."

A rare one I recently tried in a local F2F that actually worked (somewhat; as in I was essential for the pseudo 3/4-way draw on the stalemate line by the end, but that's because I was France which is OP AF):
D) "I'm changing alliances every other year for the lulz, sorry. It was your turn to be stabbed this year, but starting in spring of next year, here's the plan..." [That was my legit reasoning too. threadID=1278700]

Here's a slightly modified example of case (A), where I stab Russia as Turkey under the guise of "well you were agreeing with everything I said, so I assumed you weren't really interested in working with me"

21 Oct 2014 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1901: I gotta say you confuse the heck out of me. You say "yes" to whatever I suggest: Jugg or not Jugg, DMZ or not DMZ, and give this impression that it doesn't really matter what I say or you say you'll do your own thing, and then your actions are super trustworthy where your words or not.

I have a feeling we have very different approaches to Diplomacy and that they were not immediately compatible and I apologize for that on my end.
-gameID=148789

then I proceeded to continually ram into him, hence at least one quotation on my profile page.

Sorry, again it's an early game stab.

@A Tin Can - I'm on a Apple Mini Mac desktop and I use the mouse so I don't have to shift back and forth with the keyboard.

I usually don't send press after a stab because people act differently. Many, when stabbed, will either not respond, or are still caught in the emotion that comes with being stabbed and don't receive my press well.

It often takes time to let the person cool down, remember it's a game and get back at it. I wait until they respond or the overall board situation necessitates my being the first to send press.

I do like the responses and you all bring up great points.

The Bible reading for Friday, August 7th is 1 Corinthians 12:1-7 (NASB)

1Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
2You know that when you were pagans, [you were] led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.
3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by* the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed**”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by* the Holy Spirit.
4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
6There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.



* by--or 'in'
**accursed--literally 'anathema'

wrong room bro