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backscratcher (459 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
Help needed, someone please pick up France in TheModerne
Help needed, someone please pick up France in the game TheModerne.
2 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+3)
Gunboat SOW - Summer 2015
This thread is for the Summer 2015 Gunboat School of War (SOW). Please be courteous to those running the game and respect any reasonable requests they may make. This semester the Gunboat School of War will be overseen by Yaleunc and Valis2501. gameID=164473
Page 7 of 7
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☺ (1304 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
I'm flying home and will write a detailed eog when I get there. But to add to marks comments, the miscommunication in the spring of 07 was that I told him I would cover Venice and he did not realize that I meant with support. I'll try to elaborate more on it in my eog.
naked (4955 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
@MarquisMark

thx for your thoughts and i am sure it was an exciting first (!?) gunboat for you. you did, on my view, lots of (noob) mistake, but nobody was without. maybe turkey was closest on playing without, but he had for sure the fewest choices. you also made some really good moves on a row.
what my first impression was, while reading your analysis, is that i think your perception is unobjective. you stab austria (send him support first !) and after you see a juggernaut is comming you switch (that is good play), but expect austria instantly to defend versus russia + turkey and let you have TRI, you even defend TRI (support TRI was a big mistake if you switch). you stab austria a second time (yes, taking GRE is an attack on austria) with the understand "I would need another fleet, hence, the taking of Greece. I didn’t really consider this a stab" and playing after it like austria is still your ally (giving him support). and now look how you did play with russia and turkey when you wanted to save the game with them. you did nothing to help them. this guys did gave you all the support they could (saving VEN, not taking GRE), despite you regroup your units only to fight them, you fight with them and also support only france. that is just not the way it works.
naked (4955 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
with italiens late game i would like to explain my view on the most important thing in classic diplomatic gunboat game. in gunboat there is one stalemate line (with a few deviations) where, on my opinion, at least 80% of all games are decided (if played till the end) or to say it different 6 of 7 nations (everyone except russia, not totally sure with italy as you dont see it often go for a win) depend on this stalemate line (with the deviations) if they wanne win a game. look at positon IX:

http://diplom.org/Online/StalematesAtoY/northern-progressive.htm

there are some deviations like POR/SPA/MAR can be defended from both sides or WAR/MOS or MUN/BER or TUN (!) just to mention some. if a nation (doesnt work with russia and this stalemate line as russia starts already on both sides of it) gets big on the map you automatic should watch where it is relativ on this mentioned stalemate line. a nation can have 17 SC and have no chance for a solo, because it is only on one side of the stalemateline and the rest is organized to defend it. but there is also the case that a nation has only around 11 SC and is simply unstopable. the most seen example of this is france having a secured TUN and in full position to roll north. my critic on italiens late game is totally based on this knowledge. italy can only give up TUN if he is sure that france cant take the whole north side of the stalemate line. yes, in the game it is a long way for france to take the whole north and many players will not even recognize the danger (france only has 12 SC before taking TUN), but if the north is simply not defendable it is a lost game. i think if france in the game gets MUN/BER, scandinavia will fall automatic. so if italy gives up TUN he nedds to be pretty damm sure that russia can save MUN/BER (without even mention some convyos to get WAR or MOS). as he even later invites france to PIE, which helps a lot to take MUN/BER with cutting a possible support italys play simply a good way to loose the game.

as i think it is so important to get this concept right i will show some examples of my own praxis.
if you understand how to use this stalemate line right you can win games with it:

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=164167#gamePanel

i took this game over in the spring of 1910. just watch what i am doing. i dont randomly grab SC. i first start by going for russia to get a place on the other side of the stalemate line. that way i can secure WAR/MOS. this is the first important step to have a chance for the solo. but there is a problem. italy controls POR/SPA/MAR. this is easily defendably from his side of the stalemate line. so what will i do ? i only go for key territory with the intention to break italys line. taking england ? why should i do this. england has only one fleet so he cant get offensive versus me. yes it was a big help in the game that he was totally passiv, but taking england cost a lot of time which italy will use to fight me anyway. no, i have to fight italy hoping that he missteps and i get one of the key SC (POR/MAR/SPA). in fact i have no chance winning this game if italy, turkey and austria play it right (they should realize it is only me playing for the solo), but italy doesnt seem to be aware what is important. moving fleets away from MAO ? no good. taking BRE ? instead of defending POR/SPA in the best possible way ? no good. after italy took BRE i was in a position to outguess him on the key SC's which i finally did.

if you understand how to use this stalemate line right you can save games:

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=162864#gamePanel

in this game it was almost to late as germany was already on the other side of the stalemateline with gaining MOS/WAR. but he didnt realize how much trouble he could have made me at POR/SPA/MAR. taking PAR instead fighting for a key SC was a mistake. he stopes fighting way to early for the solo. he even supports me to SPA. look at how careful i am in handling MAO (and killing france) because i dont wanne give germany a chance to fight on.

if you understand how to use this stalemate line right you know why you loose a game:

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=165297#gamePanel

turkey going for russia ? only way for germany to win the game as turkey cant secure WAR/MOS in a safe way.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
04 Sep 15 UTC
MM - There are a couple points from your post I want to touch on. 1) BLA bounce on turn one (especially in gunboat, but even in press games) does not mean Juggernaut is not on. I would say Turkey moving army to Arm in Spring 01 means Juggernaut is not going to be on at the start at least (though if Turkey pulls back they can easily
Pivot to juggernaut). 2) A lot of your analysis and decision making focused on how you were seeing things as Italy, but in gunboat it is important to think how your neighbors will interpret and respond to your moves. For example it should not be a surprise at all that Austria responded the way he did to you taking Tri. In my experience most Austrias respond that way to Italian attack on Tri (I certainly do). Another example would be the move to Pie in the mid game when France had builds coming and Turkey was poised to take Smy from you in the coming year. I know you mentioned your thinking there was that France was going to build F Mar anyway, but I still see no reason to provoke him at that point. After all F Mar can move to Spa and then MAO rather than at you, but when you move to Pie that minimizes the likelihood of that happening. 3) I think naked mentioned this above, but with respect to Tri support holding it is definitely not the way to signal to Austria that you want to reconcile. I'm actually kind of surprised that cooler heads prevailed anyway and you two were able to get back on the same page for a while and during that stretch you made real progress against Turkey. I think your play was the most variable in this one, a couple turns where I really disliked your moves from a long run perspective but also several turns where you made some of the better moves on the board those turns.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
04 Sep 15 UTC
Cross posted but that is some very good info from naked above regarding the stalemate lines.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
04 Sep 15 UTC
@Smiley/Marquis: You guys did not in any way "spook" anyone into a draw. You were inconsequential. The only reason a draw happened is because France put his vote up.
Espi (338 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Chaqa you are wrong on that point. France put his draw up which allowed this to happen, but I only put my draw up (which lead Turkey to draw as well) when I saw Italy making bad moves which would allow France to make a huge gain on him. We had a chance to make more ground against France but I was needing to pull very risky moves, any mistake would have been very difficult to come back from. Had Italy not done so poorly and given France the advantage in the south which, with extra builds (likely fleets and armies in the north) would have turned into a northern advantage for him as well. I could not chance that happening. France drawing was the only point I and naked saw for us to end up in a draw without a long, drawn-out battle. I really wanted to face that battle and see what would happen (thus I would like to get the players of this match to replicate it someday to see what might have been) but wasn't sure how it might end.

Had Italy made better moves and not given the fight up so easily, and had he not tried to support France into Pied which lead us to think Italy was trying to work with France, I never would have drawn. It was waaay to early for a draw.
☺ (1304 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
I object to the characterization of our moves as "poor". They were exactly the moves needed to achieve the outcome we desired, as you pointed out. :-)
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
05 Sep 15 UTC
Thank you naked, Yaleunc, and Espi for the input on my EOG. And thank you, Chaqa, for the sour grapes. :P

naked, regarding this part:

"and now look how you did play with russia and turkey when you wanted to save the game with them. you did nothing to help them. this guys did gave you all the support they could (saving VEN, not taking GRE), despite you regroup your units only to fight them, you fight with them and also support only france. that is just not the way it works."

I don't necessarily see saving Ven and Gre as "giving me all the support they could." They simply refrained from taking those centers for the time being because they needed me as a buffer against France. I had every reason to believe they'd grab them eventually, once Tukey was better positioned to push France back himself. They have both said in their EOGs that they didn't want me in the draw and had plans to try for my elimination, so my intuition was correct.

And to say "that is just not the way it works,"...well, what works and what doesn't is completely dependent upon the circumstances. Had I been a "good ally" to R/T and not "given up the fight so easily" and acted as their chump to hold off France, while each got in a better position to sweep up my centers behind me, I wouldn't have made it to the end. It might not have worked for you, but it did for me.

Also, thank you for posting the info about the stalemate lines and the game you were involved in. I am going to look through that when I have some quiet time to digest it.

And Yaleunc, to your 2nd point, yes you are correct and it is one of the more maddening parts of gunboat for me. Gauging how someone will react to a move, especially a move to a sensitive province, is tough. Never know if someone is going to see that as a stab setting up or just maneuvering/positioning. I'm sure this will become easier with practice.
naked (4955 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
"I don't necessarily see saving Ven and Gre as "giving me all the support they could." They simply refrained from taking those centers for the time being because they needed me as a buffer against France."

it is giving you all the support they could, because they could not give you any more support. yes, the reasons why they did it were pretty selfish, but so is every move every nation does (hopefully).

"I had every reason to believe they'd grab them eventually, once Tukey was better positioned to push France back himself."

yes, but how can turkey first position himself better to push france back and only after that attacking you, if you are between france and turkey ? also russia and turkey would for sure be pretty understanding if you take some security measures, like controlling ION as long as you do your part of the job. and yes your part is not only protecting yourself from france, but also protecting yourself from the east. you only did one thing.

"They have both said in their EOGs that they didn't want me in the draw and had plans to try for my elimination, so my intuition was correct. "

yes, this guys were pretty mad about you, but not because they hate italy so much or you switched to a lepanto in 1901. it was because when russia, italy and turkey had to stand together they tried to help you for everybodys (r + t + i) advantage and every turn they were looking at some moves from italy and only thinking "what the f...", "why did he move that one...", "i cant believe it...".
just compare it with how russia and turkey were playing together. turkey even took a SC from russia and was that any problem ? no, both knew it is an advantage to stand together so they stand together. in fact they were really building a realtionship with supporting each other (knowing the other would most likely not attack and even spend supports to the other). yes, such a relationship can end pretty fast, but pretty unlikely as long there are important target(s) together. when you decided to take GRE you should have realized some important points. first, i am not in austria's team anymore. i stab him now twice. this guy has no chance anymore and i am the guy he can blame for it. so he will do everything (!) he can to damage me. second, i am still in war with turkey. do i want to continue this war or not. you should realize the difference between fighting turkey with austria and turkey fighting alone. what can turkey do and what will he most likely do ? if you think that turkey is to dangerous why stabing austria ? you told it was because you needed an additional fleet, but if i look at the position bevor your second stab i even dont know what an additional italien fleet can do. in fact the best thing you can do is changing the colour of the fleet at GRE, because austria, your ally, will loose this fleet for yours. also you should realize that turkey has a ally. there is a good chance that this winning team will not change (without a good reason). playing italy, i would have most likely simply stayed with austria. my first thought would be is there any chance that france can surprise me with an attack on TUN to prevent the most likely solo ? gladly it is a long way for france to TUN and he really has to show me his plans (building, moving) some turns bevor he can execute. so he cannot surprise me. what i can do until france is comming ? i am already in a war with turkey. turkey is the most dangerous guy for italy with his fleets except for france. i am in control of turkey. if i am lucky i outguess him and make even progress versus him. if not my position will not worse for some time. time that france can use to make gains in the north, forcing all players on the other side of the stalemate line to stand together. if austria goes down it is bad for me, but if russia get the gains it is no big problem, because i can easily defend versus tanks. you decided to kill your ally and give you an aditional enemy. you continued to fight turkey in a war you had to loose giving you no chance to develop a good relationship with turkey. you showed your new (forced) partners that you only care to fight them and they shouldnt expect any kind of support (to save the game). believe it or not: thats just not the way it works. yes, you can get lucky, get away with the DRAW and think my strategy worked. and russia accepting the DRAW was for sure a great achievment of your strategy, but i have to mention that even this result was not clear as russia was pretty mad about italy and could simply doing something emotional like playing further because italy doesnt deserve being part of the DRAW. the final decision maker was france offering to DRAW (and not taking it down). that was italys big, big luck, which was for sure not part of the strategy.
naked (4955 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
i also wanne mention that this game shows how strong the lepanto in gunboat is. even after an awful start (loosing SER) austria and italy were able to get control of russia and turkey. while the turkish line with moving to BLA in spring 1900 is for sure the most safest on general, in a game with advanced players, where everybody does what he has to do (austria and italy standing together, france going west) it is simply a sad game for turkey as, on my opinion, he only has to defend a (loosing) position.
naked (4955 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
just to make my last statement clear. i think russia only could make trouble to austria because of his gains in the north.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
05 Sep 15 UTC
Once again good summary/analysis naked. This is all on point.
☺ (1304 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
I would like the French player or TA to comment on whether or not they would have attacked in S 05 if we had not moved to Pie. I was convinced a French attack was coming regardless because he would attempt to solo. This is why I advised him to ensure he got a fleet build that turn - to defend against France.
CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
05 Sep 15 UTC
(+2)
For what it's worth, I think far too much attention is given to opening theory in Diplomacy, and especially gunboat. Is the Lepanto effective? Yeah, sure. But not because it's some magical set of moves that nobody can deal with, but rather because of a fundamental truth in Diplomacy:

If I am attacked by my neighbors for an extended period of time in the early game and nobody puts pressure on those neighbors to stop, I will shrink and die.

There's no magic that fixes this situation -- it's simply a fact about the game. And, in gunboat, there's an additional advantage: an alliance in which each partner has an obvious responsibility for their own theatre minimizes miscommunication. For example, R/T cannot make progress against Serbia without both sets of orders meshing, which makes it hard in gunboat. However, a plan of Austria taking the land war and Italy taking the fleet war is much easier to understand, and an easy defensive line to hold. Attacking is harder, as coordination around Aegean is essential.

In a press game, it's sometimes possible to survive being jumped on by being clever, making threats about how your centers will be disposed of, yelling for help from neighbors of neighbors, etc. In gunboat, that's often not the case, and you simply have to accept that you will lose a minimum of 20-30% of your games in the early game without much recourse. A very poor player can make this higher through poor play, but my experience both on webDip and elsewhere is that this is pretty much a bare minimum -- sometimes you're Austria and everybody just wants a piece of the empire, or you're Russia and Germany decides to be unconventional and throw two armies at Warsaw in 1901 causing everybody else to jump in, etc.

Which brings me to the next point: what separates the strong players isn't their opening, but what happens next. In the late opening/midgame, it's the ability to read the board and see how things are progressing so that you are positioned correctly every time a power makes a new decision. Strong players might not have a much better 1901 or 1902 than weak players, but they have a much, much better 1905 in the games when they've survived to that point.

And, most importantly, the endgame. There's a saying in golf that you drive for show and putt for dough, and the same is very much true in Diplomacy. In this game, 5 players got a piece of a draw when the proper result probably should have been a French solo, and it was because of endgame tactics. For that matter, if France did not play accurately, it might well have been a 3-way or 4-way draw over the board. Think about that for a moment and ask where the points were really earned, using 35 pointts as a baseline number.

The "book" opening to this game, as clever as people might or might not have been, had a small effect on the final distribution of points -- it mainly served to harm Austria, who had no chance with three neighbors wanting a piece of him from the outset, and who even might have recovered later on if Italy had backed off more quickly. Everybody was still viable, even if some were a little bit ahead or behind (and that would go away anyway if players preferred for it to balance power rather than split it)

The early game, in which everybody responded to the situation on the board and eventually we figured out that it was England who would lose in the West and Austria in the East, earned 2 for each of the surviving players.

The midgame, in which we learned that Germany would be eliminated, while the endgame would look like France pressing for a win against R/T/I, would have earned another 2 D for the remaining players. As it turned out, Germany got his piece of the draw, but presumably would not have if play continued until the outcome of the French solo push was determined one way or the other.

The endgame, on the other hand, was worth everything -- France would have earned 26 more points by taking his win, while the defenders would have saved those and kept their 9. For that matter, Russia might even have had solo chances if everything broke perfectly, right?

Given the above, where do you think you should be putting most of your effort as far as trying to improve? There's a reason that the pro golfers hit a lot more putts than drives in practice. I realize that the endgame is harder to practice simply because you have to get there first, whereas there's an early game every time you play. But I also strongly suspect that if we take a bunch of random gunboat games at the end of 1901, pause it, and let the weakest players draft which powers they want to take over, forcing the strongest ones to have the last pick, the strongest players will still come out ahead on average. I think it would be a good idea to think about having a SoW dedicated to positions that start in the midgame sometime for exactly this reason.
Fairfax (1915 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
No, we weren't going to attack you in 05. I'm not sure if we would even build F Mar, but if we did, it would be going north, not against you. It would have been way too early. We had strong Russia and Germany against us, the last thing we needed was a third enemy.
Jimothy (157 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
Sorry for the delay! Good game everybody, and I've learned a bunch.

The first couple years seemed fairly standard, but I struggled to make a decision about what to do with Den (pick a side on England or Russia), which I later regretted. I would end up supporting Russia once my fleet was up in Ska, but that never really paid off.

In fall of 1902, I attemped to attack Bur, after misunderstanding one of the options I was discussing with my TA. I don't know think that caused too much immediate retaliation, but I made a note that I wanted to ask you (Chumbles) if that affected your later moves at all.

I also noted that I should have built a fleet in Kiel early on, instead of an Army. That would have been useful when England fell.


197 replies
Zach0805 (100 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
Anniversary
Join the 12th game in the Fall of Labor Day series in its 12 month anniversary
(The game number and months are the same)
You only have 3 days because this game is starting on Labor Day
gameID=166982
0 replies
Open
IRidePigs (1386 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
New Medium Skill Level Game
Hey all, I'm starting a game for players who want a competitive game but aren't at an extremely high skill level. Starting bet is 150 D. WTA, hidden draw votes. Phases last 24 hours.

Game Id: gameID=166928
3 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
05 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
Fresh off the presses! SoW Winter 2015 Recap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re_oHsbd0QE

A quick recap of the last SoW threadID=1234165
9 replies
Open
D.Trump (40 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
America's Abortion Issue
If you think a fertilized egg is living but not millions of refugees, you've got some rethinking to do.
142 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
webDip Presents Gunboat Commentary with Valis!
We are currently hard at work on original content. In the meantime, though, check out the first 4 videos of Valis' awesome Gunboat commentary series! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vFFJpr_UqA&index=1&list=PLtzcMVBliKRLu23NLGvc4h87LtDEFC4lR
35 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
27 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
Another f2f in London?
seems to be a growing appetite for f2f's, and as there are American and Dutch ones currently or recently planned / in the pipeline, I thought I'd see if there was any demand for another one in London (or elsewhere in the UK). Really enjoyed my first f2f experience at that gathering back in March.
16 replies
Open
rojimy1123 (597 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Favorite Coloquial Rude Phrase
Personal favorite, currently, is douche canoe. Thoughts? Opinions?
3 replies
Open
__________ (0 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Iran Nuclear Deal
Should America have let Iran build Nuclear Weapons?
57 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
04 Sep 15 UTC
BGG Con / Texas
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1429189/bggcon-diplomacy-play
Anyone know anything or want to help put together something?
11/18-11/22
Hyatt Regency DFW Airport
1 reply
Open
Diploman123 (0 DX)
03 Sep 15 UTC
7 or 5 person game soon
are there people that are willing to start a fast game soon so we can all join at once and have a fast game? I believe we need to organize before so post if you can start a game within the next 10 or so minutes
4 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
03 Sep 15 UTC
Med Game for Rich
Why cant I join?
3 replies
Open
TheMinisterOfWar (509 D)
24 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
Face To Face in Groningen, Netherlands
Sunday 30 August there, the Netherlands Diplomacy Association (freshly set up) will be organising a game in Groningen. Almost two tables already, so PM me if you're interested! You can also sign up on the official NDA mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nederdip
32 replies
Open
Quick Tactical Question
If Russia agrees to be part of a Sea Lion, is it typically expected to move Army Moscow to St Pete's on the opening phase?
18 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
CD Takeover Refund
Anyone who takes over an open position can post here (non anon games) or pm me (anon games) for a full refund on the position until September 10th.
9 replies
Open
Caballo Blanco (1005 D)
02 Sep 15 UTC
September Ghost Ratings!
Oh where are you...
82 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
31 Aug 15 UTC
Lusthog?
It's been awhile, is anyone up for a new round? Maybe like 3 or 4 games?
17 replies
Open
thdfrance (187 D)
31 Aug 15 UTC
Back To School Game
Well mates, I've finished two long weeks of RA training, and classes start tomorrow. In honor of my sophomore I'd like to put together a back to school game. Classic, 24-48 hour phase, WTA. Bet size and anon I'm willing to discuss. SO anyone looking for a game?
7 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
25 Feb 15 UTC
modern gunboat tournament
i'm planning on starting a modern gunboat tournament with each participant playing every country exactly once. wta, 11-point buy-in (so you'll need 110 to participate), 36-hour phases, staggered start (i was thinking about five games at the beginning at the next five after 4-5 years).

who's in?
185 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
30 Aug 15 UTC
I'm tired
On a lising streak... was hoping to win just one so as to leave with a better pointage to stay on the top 100 for a while, f' it. NMRing last games and saying thx so long for all the stinky fish. bye!!! :)
10 replies
Open
seth24c (5659 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Spartan races.
See below!
9 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
need an Italy
only the brave mat apply

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=165756
4 replies
Open
rmf (100 D)
28 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
F2F Berlin
I stopped playing games here in webdip a few months ago, but I still got the Diplomacy bug, and I see F2Fs are growing in popularity here in the forum. So... Anyone in the neighbourhood of Berlin willing to join for an F2F in the German capital?
9 replies
Open
backscratcher (459 D)
30 Aug 15 UTC
What is this Mafia?
What is this Mafia?
24 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
29 Aug 15 UTC
Objective diplomacy
A game where you can win by getting 18 centers, or achieving your "secret objective", determined before the start of the game.
34 replies
Open
wjessop (100 DX)
30 Aug 15 UTC
Live and Let Live
I was typing a brief response to the post below about being 'trans' when I refreshed and found that the thread was locked. It was locked with a really great post from Jmo, so thanks for that. The video itself wasn't really that funny or clever, and was laughing at not with, without any sense of awareness; but I take it that that video is a closed issue, so I just wanted to add:
7 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
28 Aug 15 UTC
(+7)
webDip YouTube Channel!
See inside for some exciting news!
44 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
30 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
Coming out as Trans Everything
This video just about sums up how I feel about transracial, transabled, and whatever else people come up with on Tumblr. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMUl6w1efXI
1 reply
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Aug 15 UTC
(+8)
MAFIA XI: A Whisper In My Ghost
As above, below.
2639 replies
Open
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