so france doesn't nullify germany's move to paris? germany and england still bounce?

It would only be nullified if the supporting unit was attacked.

From page 9 of https://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy.pdf

A dislodged unit, even with support, has no effect on the province that dislodged it

So, Burgundy is dislodged and cannot effect Paris in ANY way. Therefore, Brest should occupy Paris. Right?

i guess that makes sense

Paris gets to move because it wasn't dislidged by Burgundy, it was dislodged by Brest. Burgundy, unfortunately, tried to affect the province that dislodged it, so it can't move and has to retreat.

well burgundy isn't dislodged due to germany's move, that's for sure.

I'm fairly sure you can think of it as if France wasn't there at all.

jbalcorn: Burgundy does not get dislodged.

I don't think Burgundy would be dislodged. Brest would take Paris and Burgundy would bounce with Paris' move.

Actually, no one is dislodged.

Diagram 12 is instructive in the negative. "When two or more equally supported units are ordered to the same province (Paris), neither can move, even if one is dislodged from a province _other than (Paris) the one that is the target of the standoff during the same turn_". Since it IS Paris dislodging, Brest gets to move. Did I interpret that right?

Actually, I'm thinking Chaqa is right. Without Brest's involvement, NOTHING would happen. Paris and Burgundy would stand off.

Diagram 12 shows a different situation.

agreed. The key is that the Paris <-> Burgundy standoff would fail all around by itself. Paris gets dislodged.

wait so what's the consensus?

Well no, I don't know what you mean by fail, they don't move to their destination, yes, but the moves are still there, affecting other moves, they don't cancel each other out completely. That's why Germany bounces England in Paris and Paris can't get dislodged.

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/L.B.Kruijswijk/#6.E.15

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/datc.php#section5

Or look at 6.E.15 here. It's mechanically the same situation.

I am with Fairfax on this:
Germany bounces with England in Paris. Paris doesn't move to Burgundy as units cannot 'pass' each other, and they have equal support.
Its all a bounce and all units stand.

Germany and England bounce in Paris. French move to Burgundy has no effect on the outcome of the turn and that army remains in Paris.

Fairfax is correct with his link of DATC. In this scenario, all moves happen simultaneously so there is no "canceling out" by France or Germany that would allow England to occupy Paris.

Wow, crazy to see such big names get it so wrong. Nothing is dislodged. It didn't really matter what France orders in this scenario

I agree, and both Chaqa and I were wrong. 6.E.15 is the correct situation. Note that some adjudicators get it wrong!

So if I had just written what I originall wrote, the one word answer "Bounce", I would have appeared much more knowledgeable. Remember - always go with your first answer :-)

thanks everyone, even those who got it wrong :)

so, it bounces right?

England could take Paris if he used Gascony to support Par-Bur, amusingly. I find standoffs like this to be really funny.

thank

Or if Brest attacked Picardy and Gascony moved to Parks! Crazy things can happen when three powers occupy every space in France.

Hey, I changed my answer right after I posted. I had the wrong picture of things in my head :)

What happens in Paris stays in Paris.

Yeah, big names getting confused because the question was confusing.

There is a special name for unit like army paris in this case, but 'beleagured' just sounds wrong...

2v2 bounce between paris and burgundy, aslo 2v2 bounce between Brest and burgundy. I've seen at least one case where three units beat 4,

It was 3v2 in one territory, and 3v2 in another, so the 3 won out in both cases.
(Something like A kiel - mun, A berlin and A sil supprting; against A mun - kiel, with A ruhr supporting, and A Tyr - mun with 1 support)

What is confusing about this question? Germany and England bounce each other in Paris and France and Germany standoff in their 2 vs 2 attacks between Paris and Burgundy.

My confusion was whether Germany can bounce while also in a standoff. I know the answer is yes now.