It's more fun.

Note: totally subjective.

there is negotiation there, your actions speak instead of you. There are tenuous differences between moves which do speak for those who can hear them.

Gunboat is far more strategy, than full press, but it is not pure strategy. The way you abandon places, the decisions you make who to ally with are part of your negotiations.

Surely until you haven't played a gunboat over 3500-7000 pot size it is hard to understand, but those guys do. Recently we have invited a few new players into those games, like anlari, and Draugnar, though Draug's game is still going on. However anlari could share his experiences I guess.

So anyone who underestimates gunboats simply doesn't understand the metacommunication among players. But by time you can learn, moreover enjoy it. I am extremely curious what will Draugnar say after we finish his game.

For me, personally, gunboat is a ballet, a beautiful coreography of silent dancers who tell you a story of how one of them has arisen while others have fallen. A symphony without instruments, though you see the musicians play. And if you listen carefully, suddenly you will be enlightened whats happening there, what they "say" to eachother publicly, as everyone can see it, yet only a few understands.

Gunboat is much more about adapting and planning in some ways, and reading into moves. A support hold can be viewed as saying "I'm your buddy" and soforth.

Wholeheartedly agree with rokakoma. There is also a time factor. There is a significantly smaller time investment on gunboats than FP.

I think the 'diplomacy' is just easier. i.e. people are kinda sorta Lazy to persuade thru text

i don't understand how there is 'more' strategy in gunboat, rather then full press. if anything full press should have 'more' strategy because it has more factors i.e. persuasion, truth vs lie, deceiving, etc.

For some of us (like myself) it's harder to play press because we come off as dicks. Myself, I'm very to the point so people get mad.

@roller,

Strategy, to my mind, is too broad -- I think of GB more tactical maneuvering than true diplomacy. Because of the lack of communication players have to be more self-reliant early in the game. As others have said, there IS communication, it's just with your actions versus your words. I think playing GB makes one a better tactician in FP games.

Also, I can have a live GB game going in the background and do other things, at least until I get a lot of units.

I agree Michie (if i may call u that)
tactics are key, while strategy has a different face in GB

You win diplomacy if people make moves that are advantageous to you, like supporting you, or attacking your enemies. Why would they do that? Because you've made them promises, or because they think it'll be in their benefit too.

If you're a good diplomat and you play full press, you'll spend most of your time persuading other players to do what you want. Most of your diplomacy is spent convincing other players that particular moves are good for them, even though they aren't.

Now play gunboat. You can't talk to your opponents. So if your opponents are really good, they will make the moves that increase their own winning chances. Now what you have to do, is to make sure that their optimal moves benefit you as well. This is where strategy really enters the game. To play top-level gunboat, you have go over your possible moves, predict your opponents optimal reaction to them, and pick the one that gives you the best result. So gunboat is in a way much more about reading your opponents, long-term planning, and general strategy.

TL;DR
In gunboat, you have to figure out everyone's optimal moves and plans yours accordingly. If you've got press, you can convince people to do something stupid.

I play gunboat because I'm not persuasive. On top of that, I'm a terrible strategic thinker, so either way it's a race to the bottom. Little kids can beat me at cards, so that's that on the strategic front. Gunboat at least makes persuasion a non-factor.

I think if Webdip was available in Syria there probably would not have been a civil war, let's export Webdip to save the world

It's much easier to get reasonably good at gunboat than it is to get reasonably good at press diplomacy. The learning curve gets incredibly steep to get better than good and be one of the best and understand the ebb and flow of a game as rokakoma describes.

gunboat is good for learning tactics

also, there is more than diplomacy than you might think - by supporting an enemy unit to hold, you can send a message that you want peace on that border.

"For me, personally, gunboat is a ballet, a beautiful coreography of silent dancers who tell you a story of how one of them has arisen while others have fallen. A symphony without instruments, though you see the musicians play. And if you listen carefully, suddenly you will be enlightened whats happening there, what they "say" to eachother publicly, as everyone can see it, yet only a few understands."

Agreed. I couldn't have said it any better. Very impressive.

Well, I think now it´s explained why rokakoma is one of the best gunboaters I know.

And after this explanation I really want to play a full press game with him :-)

To be honest I play gunboat because the time comitment is a lot lower. I can play at most one or two full press games at same time, but gunboats you can play a bunch without needing much time. And after you play gunboat for a while you start to catch at least a glance of the nuances that roka explained so well.

rdrivere, I'd love to play a full press sometime. However, I play terrible recently, 8 defeats out of 8 games (and minus 6k points), as my attention and focus is completely in real life issues. It affects my play, and I'm far from my old me currently.

I graduated yesterday (MSc comp. eng), I had to take care of my 42 years old beetle today, I have a lot of family/work/phd issues, hence it's better for me to stay away from playing.

Hopefully things will work out in a couple of months and I can give 100% again, but until I stay away from playing, because I just ruin others' games as well.

All that said, I'm looking forward to play a FP game once I feel I can bring my "A game" again.

Traditional press diplomacy is like a full English breakfast. A cornucopia of ingredients that is as impressive as it is satisfying. Gunboat is a sausage sandwich. Although the full English is infinitely better, there are times when all you have time for is sausage, which isn't that bad on the whole.

Personally I feel that everything that makes the game great is lost in gunboat, but if you happen to like it that's fine. Having your communication strictly limited and in plain sight of all the players does not excite me.

I disagree. Full press is like a breakfast buffet. It's a lot of food but too much will make you sick. Gunboat is like pancakes and bacon. It fills you up and you never say no to it.

"Gunboat is like pancakes and bacon" - not to us Jews, Muslims and vegetarians

I can play 20 gunboat games simultaneously and kick ass at over half of them. That's why I play it. And as a bacon-loving Jew, gunboat is definitely analogous to it.

If you do want to compare the two, full press is much more dramatic and thus more exciting!

Gunboat is like quiche.

Vegetarian?

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4004/4309230175_6b3417d720.jpg

You can do more in press. You can coordinate more things. The subtleties that are brought out in gunboat by restricting the viable options one has to work with are hard to understand if you don't immerse yourself in it and play it competitively. This would only appeal to the people who at heart are true strategists and who truly believe that actions speak louder than words.

'True strategists'? What's so strategical about making moves that are practically blind....

Because they're not blind at all. The press restriction in gunboat actually lets you know your opponent's position perfectly.