M53: Mafia 1 Redux

[BunnyGo]

ok fine
##Vote bunnygo

Brainbomb was **already** on BunnyGo when he posted this.

This is HIGHLY suspect.

I'm catching up on the thread, but there are two things in this regard:

I found brain's play towards EOD very weird. Slagging Bob for self-defense was technically incorrect and I don't believe brainbomb doesn't know that. Brain then called out that Bob may be a PR. I don't feel there's any good reason to do that as town. I know brainbomb is a wildcard but those two things looked distinctly scummy, not just crazy.

However, the other thing is: I was close to voting Bunny because, an hour and a half before EOD, Bunny re-iterated that he was policy-lynching emc, but he had literally been the very first vote in the game and had camped on emc perpetually (for 46.5 hours or whatever). I thought it was a weird thing to call out at that time, with emc lead wagon and Bunny's vote stale. Now what's really strange, I had to leave EOD to go to an event, but I see Bunny tried to start a damo wagon. So that's really, really interesting and I'll have to look back at Bunny's reasoning.

So you missed EOD1? That would explain why you couldn't jump on the other leading wagons at the last 30 minutes to save EMC.

[BunnyGo]

fwiw foodcoats almost died last night.

I did see something that suggested what you are suggesting earlier in reference to Nephthys.

…

What do you think of BunnyGo, brainbomb?

##UNVOTE

Why did you unvote here?

[BobMcBob]

Well, due to a combination of procrastination, distraction and having work to do, I'm not going to get around to those reads after all... lynch me if you want, I'll take it. I didn't play a particularly invested game after Day 1. That said, I'd prefer not to be lynched. I'm not even the least active...

[BunnyGo]

Well, due to a combination of procrastination, distraction and having work to do, I'm not going to get around to those reads after all... lynch me if you want, I'll take it. I didn't play a particularly invested game after Day 1. That said, I'd prefer not to be lynched. I'm not even the least active...

##VOTE FOOD

[BunnyGo]

Seeing as there's no viable counterwagons, I am going to

##VOTE brainbomb

and just park it there.

I really apologize but I am not going to be online much if at all this weekend (North American time). I have been out of the country all week and have a big family thing down here tomorrow, then an 8 hour drive home Sunday. Due to some problems with my roaming plan I can't use my cell phone unless I get on wifi. I will do my best to get in and keep up to speed. Otherwise, assuming I don't die, I will be back to playing properly on Monday morning.

After working hard to build another viable wagon on me, he just does this?

[BunnyGo]

By the way, my ballad of foodcoats is being done in lots of posts with short sentences so that Damo feels it is readable enough. I hope he cba.

[BunnyGo]

Having reviewed the bozo wagon... damo is seriously scummy. Bunny actually comes out looking better. Bunny was the only person who actually deigned to make a case against bozo. I don't really agree with it but I am only seeing it now with hindsight, and the fact that Bunny put a lot of effort into it shows to me that he was hunting scum and is therefore probably town.

Clipping it because it is very long:

The ballad of Bozo:
...

What's funny about this is that damo specifically says he can't be bothered to read Bunny's case, but he still flipflops around and manages to end up landing on bozo. The explanation we get from damo is not only patently absurd, it is verifiably scummy:

Looking at the 3 main wagons day 1 and considering there were at least 2 town on each of the 4 vote wagons there surely must be AT LEAST one scum among brain bozo and Kalel.

We do NOT know there were two town on each of the four-vote wagons D1. Neph and xorx were on Bunny, Squigs was on Bob. My guess is that scum!damo thought that two of the people on the emc wagon were strongly townread and therefore they "were" town to town, and of course they are town from damo's perspective. Nevermind that you can't just make assumptions and derive a scumteam from it. Just knowing X number of town doesn't tell you that scum are dispersed in a certain way on the wagons. But damo declines to actually do the legwork to find scum and doesn't even care about Bunny's case. damo remains infinitely flexible, moves around to "see what happens," and winds up lynching bozo because...?

Below is another example. I get that damo is a mathematician or whatever but you cannot solve Mafia this way. You need at least one caught scum to even bother doing this. Am I just a pleb or is it not true that you can't solve for X with no known variables? This is damo making it look like he is hunting, except that the entire premise of doing things this way is invalid. It is super scummy.

Both brain and bunny had terrible EOD1s.
However I don't think they are scum together.

Possible scumteams:

Bunny Bozo Kalel
Bunny Bozo + kak or rdr
Bunny Kalel + kak or rdr
Brain Bozo Kalel
Brain Bozo + 1 (Fox the Busser)
Brain Kalel + 1 (Fox?)

Possible scumteam count

Brain 7
Bozo 7
Kalel 7
Bunny 5
Kak 4
rdr 4
Fox 2

Bob also looks incredibly scummy in their move to bozo. They plant some hedges in the quote below, and a little later after brain pushes on him, Bob issues a bozo vote.

I hate how people still think I would've gone for emc at EoD over Jamie to save myself if I was scum. It doesn't make sense. I'm less good than emc, I wouldn't risk a lynch of a fellow mafia to save myself. I'm not that illusioned at my worth as a player.

And I think I'm gonna hop off the brain wagon for a bit ##Unvote
I like bunny's case on bozo, and to be fair I never liked his "brilliant plan" this game. It didn't seem particularly inspired. I'm not sure, I may jump on his wagon later once I've looked over his posts myself. I have other things to attend to though, like the Masters Round 4.

I also pulled some suspect quotes from rdr that I have removed, because I think rdr is more likely town and mislynched. I don't like that rdr slagged Kit for a late move to bozo at EOD D1 and will later go on to do it himself on D2, and how he tells bozo that he's not going to end up on him at the end of D2, and then does; and I also don't like how rdr says he's going to iso bozo but does not. But I felt like rdr's EOD was panicked, which is in contrast to some of the other vote flipping happening at the end.

Hmm...an interesting post mortem.

[BunnyGo]

Uh wtf

Didn't you say you'd be missing EOD2?

[BunnyGo]

Hi kit. I see you lurking...

[Kitsune]

I still want answers from Flash before I consider a move off his wagon.

@Flash: Anything for us?

Haven’t finished my mapping yet, but hope to have this done usefully short of EoD. Calling it a night for now, please don’t flashlynch anyone too Towncritical before we have a chance to consider and react.

Which probably means, don’t kill our last power role or any of the extant Townleaders. Kalel’s wagon is ominously large at the moment, and I’m not persuaded by the case against them (although flash’s willingness to commit to a leading wagon is noted).

[BunnyGo]

I still want answers from Flash before I consider a move off his wagon.

@Flash: Anything for us?

Haven’t finished my mapping yet, but hope to have this done usefully short of EoD. Calling it a night for now, please don’t flashlynch anyone too Towncritical before we have a chance to consider and react.

Which probably means, don’t kill our last power role or any of the extant Townleaders. Kalel’s wagon is ominously large at the moment, and I’m not persuaded by the case against them (although flash’s willingness to commit to a leading wagon is noted).

Who do you consider a town leader?

[Kakarroto]

##Vote jamie

What happened to Steve?

Well. he became a scuba instructah

an onsen is a hot water spring, with build infrastructure. Bathing there is great, swimming prohibited normally.

I announced my shot in final 90 seconds.

kit and kak were the only visible webdip ppl on at the time. no guests listed.

not sure maf coulda reacted to rb me.

assume scum thot my kill was on jamie or damo

the scumteam literally is jamoe, bunny and damo.

if you want me to suicide myself by hammering I will. I do not give a rats fucking ass. if you cant see whats happening you are a deranged sociopath

I think, the only way jamie is scum, is with bunny and flash, the way jamie and bunny asked where kitsune is but not flash seemed like a subtle change of directions for town. But I most likely misread this I guess.

[...]
GROUP C
kakarrotto
(bizzare but active)
[...]

or do you mean ... cacarroto?

[...]
I think Jamie and Kakarroto are both obvtown.
[...]

I'm ... surprised anyone could read me as obvtown, I myself think I've done some scummy sh*t

[...]
I have no idea what any of this means. "Onsen"? "Fox Spirit"?
[...]

'Kitsune' can mean fox or fox spirit, as Kitsune was voting me for a longer period I tried a joke since the Kitsune was on top of me and I 'took her with me' ... silly me, right?

Onsen is a hot water spring with a hotel or public infrastructure around it to make people enjoy a time of peace and silence, get away from the world, regain health/mental/... . It is also used in isekai (other world) settings to lighten the mood and get an episode or two of light-hearted fun.

=================================

Well, as the wagons are 3-3-2-1-1 right now, and I'm going to work now, I'm not ok with making me the fourth on flash, I mean I think he is scummy, but most of this is probably because of his low involvement, also, somehow I don't like the wagon itself currently, call me crazy, call me stupid, but it doesn't feel right, right now.

So I'll vote ##damo666 I think scum did think he was targeted with the nk from brain, even when brain said he wouldn't have shot him.

[BunnyGo]

By the way @kak: your vote was invalid. Use 2 octothorpes followed by vote and then a name.

[foodcoats]

Uh wtf

Didn't you say you'd be missing EOD2?

I probably did, I expected a family dinner after my sister-in-law's baby shower but that didn't happen.

[foodcoats]

Seeing as there's no viable counterwagons, I am going to

##VOTE brainbomb

and just park it there.

I really apologize but I am not going to be online much if at all this weekend (North American time). I have been out of the country all week and have a big family thing down here tomorrow, then an 8 hour drive home Sunday. Due to some problems with my roaming plan I can't use my cell phone unless I get on wifi. I will do my best to get in and keep up to speed. Otherwise, assuming I don't die, I will be back to playing properly on Monday morning.

After working hard to build another viable wagon on me, he just does this?

I recall that when I shifted here I was the only vote on you and brainbomb was playing really scummy. I knew I would be online only rarely if at all, wouldn't be able to keep up with the whole thread, and the best thing to do was put my vote where I'd be comfortable with it ending. I didn't want day to end with my vote out in the ether.

[foodcoats]

fwiw foodcoats almost died last night.

I did see something that suggested what you are suggesting earlier in reference to Nephthys.

…

What do you think of BunnyGo, brainbomb?

##UNVOTE

Why did you unvote here?

Because brainbomb was OBVIOUSLY softing vigilante here. He had apologized to Neph and he said "fwiw its worth foodcoats almost died last night." The only alternative explanation is that he was softing scum but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He then proceeded to continue undermining town...

[foodcoats]

Brainbomb was **already** on BunnyGo when he posted this.

This is HIGHLY suspect.

I'm catching up on the thread, but there are two things in this regard:

I found brain's play towards EOD very weird. Slagging Bob for self-defense was technically incorrect and I don't believe brainbomb doesn't know that. Brain then called out that Bob may be a PR. I don't feel there's any good reason to do that as town. I know brainbomb is a wildcard but those two things looked distinctly scummy, not just crazy.

However, the other thing is: I was close to voting Bunny because, an hour and a half before EOD, Bunny re-iterated that he was policy-lynching emc, but he had literally been the very first vote in the game and had camped on emc perpetually (for 46.5 hours or whatever). I thought it was a weird thing to call out at that time, with emc lead wagon and Bunny's vote stale. Now what's really strange, I had to leave EOD to go to an event, but I see Bunny tried to start a damo wagon. So that's really, really interesting and I'll have to look back at Bunny's reasoning.

So you missed EOD1? That would explain why you couldn't jump on the other leading wagons at the last 30 minutes to save EMC.

Why do you think I'm scum?

[foodcoats]

Well I just noticed my three pings were all the low posters. So that was probably a subconscious bias.

I don't really like the emc wagon. I am not in principle opposed to a policy lynch, because I think it is almost certain that at least one scum is lurking D1, but I think a much better option than emc is flash. emc is pretty active this game, and town!emc has shown reckless abandon in at least two games I've played to allow themselves to be lynched in favour of protecting their meta of late voting. This means that emc is an easy mislynch for scum, and also that emc isn't even really a good policy option here because, votes aside, and whether or not you like what emc has posted, they are participating at a solid level. Lynching emc here is in my eyes equal to lynching brainbomb: you can't sort them adequately yet, and they are definitely not lurking, so it's a bad play to lynch them just because you're not getting what you want from them.

##VOTE flash2015

Tries to save EMC

I still like my reasoning, even if I was wrong. Can you actually look at what I was saying, look at emc's history and style, look at my points of comparison - brain, flash - and agree or disagree with my argument?

You are just looking for any bad reason to shade me. Your reasoning is horrible. By your logic there are 13 players who tried to save emc. AND ONE OF THEM IS YOU YA BIG DUMMY. WHY'D YOU VOTE FOR DAMO AND NOT EMC YA STOOPIE STOOPID HEAD. IS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE SAVING EMC?

[BunnyGo]

Well I just noticed my three pings were all the low posters. So that was probably a subconscious bias.

I don't really like the emc wagon. I am not in principle opposed to a policy lynch, because I think it is almost certain that at least one scum is lurking D1, but I think a much better option than emc is flash. emc is pretty active this game, and town!emc has shown reckless abandon in at least two games I've played to allow themselves to be lynched in favour of protecting their meta of late voting. This means that emc is an easy mislynch for scum, and also that emc isn't even really a good policy option here because, votes aside, and whether or not you like what emc has posted, they are participating at a solid level. Lynching emc here is in my eyes equal to lynching brainbomb: you can't sort them adequately yet, and they are definitely not lurking, so it's a bad play to lynch them just because you're not getting what you want from them.

##VOTE flash2015

Tries to save EMC

I still like my reasoning, even if I was wrong. Can you actually look at what I was saying, look at emc's history and style, look at my points of comparison - brain, flash - and agree or disagree with my argument?

You are just looking for any bad reason to shade me. Your reasoning is horrible. By your logic there are 13 players who tried to save emc. AND ONE OF THEM IS YOU YA BIG DUMMY. WHY'D YOU VOTE FOR DAMO AND NOT EMC YA STOOPIE STOOPID HEAD. IS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE SAVING EMC?

My ballads are always the best case I can make. Shall we see the ballad of bunny next?

[foodcoats]

Food were you fishing for PR crumbs? Why did your scum chat not identify Bozo?

Actually, my theory with the D&D class thing was that some number of scum would not want to participate. As scum you're always watching out that you don't leave a trail of things that could identify you as scum later. So scum would look at this D&D class thing and be like... "Nah... I don't know what food is doing but I don't want to get caught up in something I don't understand... and besides it's D&D classes, that's stupid, I can avoid this." So my hope was that we'd end up with somewhere up to five people who didn't participate. I felt we could know, in that situation, that at least one of those X non-participants was one of the four scum. It would give us a good POE later.

But in the event it really didn't catch on so became useless.