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Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:16 pm

Why are you so keen to treat this as an isolated incident rather than just one small part of a much more significant problem?

Partly because this thread was primarily about the incident and subsequent violence, so that is naturally what I focused on. Partly because there's no proof that says that the initial incident was connected to the wider issue of race relations.

Octavious wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:30 pm

All my posts in this thread have been in reply to posts from others, aside from the first which was a couple of sentences long. But I am quite interested in the obsession on American domestic policy that some non Americans have, and the spread of the Antifa plague.

Standing up to the rise of fascism is a "plague"?

Octavious wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:34 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:16 pm

Why are you so keen to treat this as an isolated incident rather than just one small part of a much more significant problem?

Partly because this thread was primarily about the incident and subsequent violence, so that is naturally what I focused on. Partly because there's no proof that says that the initial incident was connected to the wider issue of race relations.

I am sure that in 1955, when Rosa Parks was asked to give up her seat on the bus, you would have said that there was "no proof that this was connected to the wider issue of race relations".

You are vile.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:37 pm

Standing up to the rise of fascism is a "plague"?

Not at all. I fully intend to fight against any fascists I come across with the same enthusiasm as I will fight against Antifa thugs. Possibly even more so.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:41 pm

I am sure that in 1955, when Rosa Parks was asked to give up her seat on the bus, you would have said that there was "no proof that this was connected to the wider issue of race relations".

Being told to move because of the colour of your skin is clear cut racism. Someone dying in policy custody isn't. Your enthusiasm to jump to whatever conclusions support your political view without interest in investigating the truth is extremely worrying.

Octavious wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:34 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:16 pm

Why are you so keen to treat this as an isolated incident rather than just one small part of a much more significant problem?

Partly because this thread was primarily about the incident and subsequent violence, so that is naturally what I focused on. Partly because there's no proof that says that the initial incident was connected to the wider issue of race relations.

Yes, the violence. Which is caused by anger, which has built up without outlet for years. Ignoring the context is why you are missing the point.

I just can't tell if your ignorance is willful or not.

I was discussing the US earlier, how ironic it is that people waving confederate flags call themselves patriots; given that the confederacy lost the civil war.

How and Ever, when you realise the slavery was never abolished for prisoners, and recog ise that the US has the largest incarceration rate in the world (both per capita and in total). You can see there is already something wrong. But add to that the fact that being black disproportionately increases the likely hood of being incarcerated... Yeah, it doesn't seem so ironic now, like the US has managed to maintain it's racist roots, while sanitising the whole thing... Yeah the more I learn the less I would ever consider going back to the US.

"Let me be clear: The president just used a Bible, the most sacred text of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and one of the churches of my diocese without permission as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that our churches stand for."

- Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde (the Bishop whose diocese includes St John's church, the church which Trump used for a publicity opportunity after clearing peaceful protesters aside using tear gas, without the church's approval).

Later on Twitter, Bishop Budde said:

"The President did not come to pray; he did not lament the death of George Floyd or acknowledge the collective agony of people of color in our nation. He did not attempt to heal or bring calm to our troubled land."

Meanwhile a thread of police vandalising property: https://twitter.com/loneangeI/status/12 ... 91688?s=09

orathaic wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:15 pm

Meanwhile a thread of police vandalising property: https://twitter.com/loneangeI/status/12 ... 91688?s=09

That’s a thread of sod all. Someone claiming that someone smashing windows is really an undercover cop is not evidence of anything. I could claim it was you and it'd be as convincing. The first video shows people in police uniform removing broken glass from a window. The video is too short to draw any conclusions, and it makes you curious why it is so short. It could show someone finishing off the smashing of a window, or it could show someone making safe broken glass.

Seriously, mate, that thread is a load of shite.

And this one? https://twitter.com/kaylah88331119/stat ... 28416?s=09

orathaic wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:22 am

And this one? https://twitter.com/kaylah88331119/stat ... 28416?s=09

Ora, there are a load of extremely clear videos of protesters vandalising cars, buildings, and police stations. What do you suggest is the reasoning behind cops destroying their own car in order to potentially add a photo to the masses of clear cut existing evidence? What thinking process do you imagine is going on?

Excellent piece by DC based lawyer: https://youtu.be/z56j06plUgs

Nice piece on what history class left out: https://twitter.com/clairewillett/statu ... 75200?s=19

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 12:16 pm

That's part of the issue. If recent history shows much, its that justice might not follow. That is the crux of the issue. Police officers in recent memory have been acquitted of killing black men. There is no faith in the justice system which is what evokes these reactions. If there was faith in the justice system, this likely would not be happening.

Except, that white people are killed by cops all the time. And the cops face prosecution less than when blacks are killed.
Dallas man dies after deputy is seen with knee on his neck during arrest
https://mashable.com/2015/08/31/dallas-man-dies-police/
Dallas police: Man killed by officer had pellet gun
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2015/09 ... ellet-gun/
Police laughed and joked as he lost consciousness in handcuffs. Minutes later, he died.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... r-he-died/
Disturbing video shows unarmed man begging before fatal police shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8
Bodycam shows officer shoot man wearing headphones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mezvCg0A5c
Body camera footage released in Oregon police fatal shooting in Carl's Jr. bathroom
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-nort ... sed_i.html
Justice for James: Black Cop Shoots Unarmed White Veteran in Orange, TX over Racial Slur
https://www.texasgopvote.com/issues/res ... ur-0057061
Widow of Linden man shot while working on daughter's SUV sues ISP trooper for wrongful death
https://www.jconline.com/story/news/201 ... 664095001/

orathaic wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:10 pm

Yes, the violence. Which is caused by anger, which has built up without outlet for years. Ignoring the context is why you are missing the point.

[/quote]

You know, the race based anger of the Nazi had built up over years. That didn't mean that it was based on fact.

Peaceful protestor in Dallas: https://twitter.com/ashlynnbgoyne/statu ... 54657?s=19

TomareUtsuZo wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:10 am

orathaic wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:10 pm

Yes, the violence. Which is caused by anger, which has built up without outlet for years. Ignoring the context is why you are missing the point.

You know, the race based anger of the Nazi had built up over years. That didn't mean that it was based on fact.

Anger at the way Germany was treated by the allies under the treaty of Versailles was misdirected at communists, lgbtq folks and the Jewish population. Just like Trump has been directing legitimate anger of disenfranchised White people at Mexicans, and Muslims.

Next step is to direct this anger at PoC for protesting injustice.

If you want to talk about facts in policing in the US, how about the fact that drug use seems consistent across races, but convictions for drug use are massively more likely for PoC.

The US remains the country with the highest rate of incarceration in the world. More total prisoners than China (though I don't know if this counting includes Uyghurs minority being 'ré-educated'...) highest per capita incarceration rates in the world. And the fact that these prisoners are disproportionately PoC, and also slavery remains legal for prisoners in the US.

Which facts are these protestor not basing their anger on? Is it the armed White militias occupying state houses across the country during a pandemic because they want a haircut? Or the unarmed protesters being tear gassed* by police so the President can have a photo op.

*tear gas damages the respiratory system, and this is the last thing you want when people are dieing from a pandemic which affects the respiratory system.

TomareUtsuZo wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:06 am

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 12:16 pm

That's part of the issue. If recent history shows much, its that justice might not follow. That is the crux of the issue. Police officers in recent memory have been acquitted of killing black men. There is no faith in the justice system which is what evokes these reactions. If there was faith in the justice system, this likely would not be happening.

Except, that white people are killed by cops all the time. And the cops face prosecution less than when blacks are killed.

Sounds like you have a serious problem with your police force. But remind me. What percentage of the population is white? And what percentage of people killed by cops is white? Is it 4 times more likely that a cop will kill a black man (and that is just looking at the shootings, thus does not include those killed in custody).