Celebration of America

[ND]

God. Mueller was such a rambling loser lol. Oh the great Mueller will save us! hHAAHHAHAHAHA

Trump 2020!!! Keep America Great!!

[Randomizer]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mcconne ... d=64569009

Republicans preventing bills to stop election fraud so Russians can help them and Trump win in 2020. Despite repeated evidence of Russian interference in 2016 and 2018, McConnell is blocking any attempt to provide more security from election fraud.

You would think that with all of Trump's false claims of election fraud that anything to prevent it would pass, but no the Republicans are all talk and no action.

Make America Russian is more like it.

[Stressedlines]

I read the article. A few republics are on record as saying they would vote for the bill if the fereralizing clauses are removed and I guess there is some lard attached they dont like

I fi d the last funny as all pols like lard

[ND]

@Randomizer: Good, Russia didn't interfere in the 2016 election. No agency anywhere said one vote was changed by the muh Russians. It's just a big leftist conspiracy to explain why they lost. And don't bring up Podesta's emails. It's been proven his password was password and that's how his email was hacked (not by the Russians either).

Why pass a bill and give credence to this ridiculous, brain dead, dumb leftist conspiracy theory?

[ND]

At some point you leftists have to let this go and acknowledge you lost because A) you are out of touch with reality B) no one wants your Marxist policies to be enacted C) only a small minority of twitter users (the activist left) care about identity politics no one else does D) mainstream America is sick of being dumped on by your candidates. When you acknowledge A-D and change your behavior maybe you will have a chance to win a national election again.

[flash2015]

At some point you leftists have to let this go and acknowledge you lost because A) you are out of touch with reality B) no one wants your Marxist policies to be enacted C) only a small minority of twitter users (the activist left) care about identity politics no one else does D) mainstream America is sick of being dumped on by your candidates. When you acknowledge A-D and change your behavior maybe you will have a chance to win a national election again.

Wait, what? Marxism?? Did I miss something in the presidential debates or something? Did some Democratic presidential candidate espouse nationalizing the means of production...and I missed it? Can you point me to this?

Or are you meaning "Cultural Marxism", a concept created by the Nazis to smear political opponents (especially the Jews)?

Or perhaps is Marxism, in your opinion, any political policy you personally disagree with? I am sorry but I have been unable to find a dictionary so far which supports that definition.

If you could clarify it would be much appreciated.

[ND]

1) Yeah at the Democratic Debates the Democratic candidates advocated policies like nationalizing health care and things like the Green New Deal want to ban air travel and nationalize farms to get rid of cows. So, yeah the policies exposed by the party are Marxist.

2) Cultural Marxism is not a term invented by Nazis. It's invented by, well, Cultural Marxists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School. The Frankfurt School were exiled German Marxists in the 30s who came to America and their research coined the phrase cultural marxists because they used Praxis and Critical Theory to examine cultural topics in capitalist systems (like America) and critiqued them with a Marxist lens. This was done to everything from Jazz to Automobiles. So, I don't know where you get the Nazi thing from. The school examines Culture and advances Marxism through culture. It started in the 30s and continues today.

3) And, no, I actually am liberal on quite a few points, but the Democratic Party of 2019 is essentially a Marxist party. There is no left leaning or liberal party in the United States.

4) I would recommend you read up on the Frankfurt School. Many of those scholars were persecuted by the Nazis. To say that they were Nazis is incredibly ignorant and dense Flash. While I disagree with them they openly used their exiled school to advance Marxism through Cultural critique. As someone who has studied Weimar Culture (more than you will ever even grasp) I would recommend you read The Dialectical Imagination by Martin Jay (don't worry he is a major leftist but his book is good and I recommend it).

[flash2015]

1) Yeah at the Democratic Debates the Democratic candidates advocated policies like nationalizing health care and things like the Green New Deal want to ban air travel and nationalize farms to get rid of cows. So, yeah the policies exposed by the party are Marxist.

Universal health care has been implemented in many countries, including some of our closest allies like Canada, Australia and GB. So these are Marxist countries then? Really?

No the Green New Deal does not ban air travel (even though that banning air travel or not has nothing to do with Marxism):

https://www.politifact.com/florida/stat ... lorida-se/

And I can't even find the claim at all that the green new deal nationalizes farms.

So I will have to go with making this up.

2) Cultural Marxism is not a term invented by Nazis. It's invented by, well, Cultural Marxists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School. The Frankfurt School were exiled German Marxists in the 30s who came to America and their research coined the phrase cultural marxists because they used Praxis and Critical Theory to examine cultural topics in capitalist systems (like America) and critiqued them with a Marxist lens. This was done to everything from Jazz to Automobiles. So, I don't know where you get the Nazi thing from. The school examines Culture and advances Marxism through culture. It started in the 30s and continues today.

You don't know where I got the Nazi thing from? Did you bother to even do any research at all?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

3) And, no, I actually am liberal on quite a few points, but the Democratic Party of 2019 is essentially a Marxist party. There is no left leaning or liberal party in the United States.

Whatever, you don't even know the meaning of the word.

4) I would recommend you read up on the Frankfurt School. Many of those scholars were persecuted by the Nazis. To say that they were Nazis is incredibly ignorant and dense Flash. While I disagree with them they openly used their exiled school to advance Marxism through Cultural critique. As someone who has studied Weimar Culture (more than you will ever even grasp) I would recommend you read The Dialectical Imagination by Martin Jay (don't worry he is a major leftist but his book is good and I recommend it).

I already gave my links above. As supposedly such a cultured person, I am really surprised that you can deny the Nazi links with such a straight face.

[flash2015]

A nice takedown of the cultural marxism bollocks here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrpSpwxgWw

[flash2015]

It is actually laughable that you point me to the Frankfurt school article in Wikipedia which also links the idea of cultural marxism to anti-semitism:

"In contemporary usage, the term Cultural Marxism is a right-wing, antisemitic conspiracy theory according to which the Frankfurt School is part of a continual academic and intellectual culture war to systematically undermine and destroy Western culture and social traditions.[49] As articulated in the 1990s, the conspiracy means to replace traditionalist conservatism and Christianity with the counterculture of the 1960s to promote social changes such as racial multiculturalism, multi-party progressive politics, acceptance of LGBT rights, and political correctness in language.[50][51][52]"

[flash2015]

I am all for robust debate but this stuff is just silly.

[ND]

“So these are Marxist countries then? Really?” Not necessarily, but universal healthcare is a Marxist policy because it is the intervention of government over the private sector and it nationalizes the sector thus making it government controlled and operated. Hence, the root of Marxism. Is it really necessary for me to explain to you what a Marxist policy is?

“No the Green New Deal does not ban air travel (even though that banning air travel or not has nothing to do with Marxism): Actually, it does have something to do with Marxism.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/green- ... ng-to-work

So, yeah over a ten year period the bill aims to make air travel “Obsolete” hence codeword for the government to intervene and end the industry because it relies on ‘fossil fuels’. And, yeah the bill aims to reduce cattle herds https://www.drovers.com/article/democra ... rting-cows because Cows have a ‘negative’ effect you can read the headline I’m not going to be crass. When the government directly intervenes to mandate how a farmer can farm that is again a massive overstep of the government in the private sector and banning or reducing cattle would classify as a Marxist policy. Furthermore, the government intervening and banning or making an industry obsolete is a Marxist policy because it is government intervention in a sector, nationalizing it or removing it altogether because it doesn’t meet the government’s idea or ‘command control plan’ for how the economy should operate. These policies would bring the US economy closer in line with https://www.britannica.com/topic/command-economy a command economy which is what Marxist governments used in the 20th century like in the USSR or Warsaw Bloc countries. The government would in effect dictate what industries were prioritized, etc. So, yeah it has everything to do with Marxism and is a Marxist plan.

How does the Green New Deal directly relate to Marxism beyond Command Economy tenets? It operates under the fake belief in Global Warming. All Global Warming is, is a catch all umbrella term that allows the ‘Democrats’ or Marxists to push for greater government intervention in the private sector and private citizens lives in an insane and fake effort to control the climate. It simply is Green-Communism and naturally the whole idea for Global Warming or Global Cooling (whatever they are calling it now adays) came from the Soviet Union in the 1980s. It’s fake and an excuse to dictate and control people’s lives. It’s so sad that so many people are brainwashed by this lie. Even if it was real there is nothing we can do about it.

Flash, please don’t lecture me on Cultural Marxism. As an academic who has studied Weimar extensively, the Frankfurt School, and this branch of Marxism I promise you I know more than you will ever know on the subject. I seriously do not care about your wiki terms. The people who wrote them are as clueless as you. Read the actual Frankfurt School papers in German like I have or their abstracts in English. Marxists using Praxis and Critical Theory to critique Capitalist culture in the 1930s and 40s is a real thing, they were the Frankfurt School, and they were proud to call themselves Marxists. This Marxist critique of Capitalist culture continued well into the 50s by the Frankfurt School. I know there is some slander and debate on the modern connotations. Obviously, the Frankfurt School is no longer publishing academic studies in 2019 on Capitalist Culture. After the 50s the School basically dissipated. However, it found new life in the modern “left” and with modern Marxists who continue the practice of praxis and critical theory in academia. I’m not going to change my terminology because you link a wiki page written by someone like you who has no idea what they are even talking about and are ignorant on the subject because they haven’t studied the primary sources. I have and frankly you are ridiculous for even bothering to challenge me on this.

[ND]

I am all for robust debate but this stuff is just silly.

Yeah linking a wiki page to someone who has studied the Frankfurt School for most of their adult life and read the papers from the school in German is pretty silly I agree. But, whatever helps you sleep at night friend! Do what you need to do! Lol, but you are one silly little snowflake man.

[flash2015]

I am all for robust debate but this stuff is just silly.

Yeah linking a wiki page to someone who has studied the Frankfurt School for most of their adult life and read the papers from the school in German is pretty silly I agree. But, whatever helps you sleep at night friend! Do what you need to do! Lol, but you are one silly little snowflake man.

You pointed me to the Frankfurt school Wikipedia page which points out the loopy, anti-semitic "cultural marxism" conspiracy bollocks which I all know all too well about. Your "appeal to authority" argument doesn't make the conspiracy less crazy and dumb.

[ND]

I haven't mentioned ethnicity or religion once. You have. I don't buy into that stuff. It has nothing to do with this.

[flash2015]

“So these are Marxist countries then? Really?” Not necessarily, but universal healthcare is a Marxist policy because it is the intervention of government over the private sector and it nationalizes the sector thus making it government controlled and operated. Hence, the root of Marxism. Is it really necessary for me to explain to you what a Marxist policy is?

So you do call public schools Marxist as well? Local fire departments Marxist? Perhaps your local water company (it is run by my local government so it is obviously Marxist!). Some people believe, as I do, that as an advanced wealthy society that we should be able to provide healthcare to all citizens. But most also want to live in a capitalist, democratic country too. It is just a part of modern government to strike the right balance between market and government just as we do with education or the local fire department or the local water company. You may disagree that this is not the right balance, but to suggest anyone that disagrees with you as effectively wanting the US to become like North Korea or Soviet Russia is just silly.

“No the Green New Deal does not ban air travel (even though that banning air travel or not has nothing to do with Marxism): Actually, it does have something to do with Marxism.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/green- ... ng-to-work

So, yeah over a ten year period the bill aims to make air travel “Obsolete” hence codeword for the government to intervene and end the industry because it relies on ‘fossil fuels’.

Did you even read the article???:

'The resolution also backs the concept of high-speed rail as a proposal to reduce carbon emissions -- but the FAQ goes so far as to urge that development “at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary.”'

They are arguing that they can make air travel largely unnecessary through big advances in high speed rail. So building infrastructure is Marxist now? I think a lot of the short distance air travel could probably go away with much better high speed rail. It would be wonderful if we could remove a lot of the necessity of air travel. Whilst I think there belief that they can build so much that "air travel stops becoming necessary" is fantasy, I am not seeing anything wrong with big ideas here.

And, yeah the bill aims to reduce cattle herds https://www.drovers.com/article/democra ... rting-cows because Cows have a ‘negative’ effect you can read the headline I’m not going to be crass. When the government directly intervenes to mandate how a farmer can farm that is again a massive overstep of the government in the private sector and banning or reducing cattle would classify as a Marxist policy.

They are writing stuff here for people that believe in Organic = health and Big Agriculture = bad. You can see this when they refer to "family farmers" (Big Agriculture = bad!!) and sustainable agriculture practices (Organic == good!). I don't subscribe to this stuff and I think by putting it in they made the "Green New Deal" lose focus. So some people have some different ideas on how we should grow food. Both you and I don't agree with them here but that doesn't make them Marxist.

Furthermore, the government intervening and banning or making an industry obsolete is a Marxist policy because it is government intervention in a sector, nationalizing it or removing it altogether because it doesn’t meet the government’s idea or ‘command control plan’ for how the economy should operate. These policies would bring the US economy closer in line with https://www.britannica.com/topic/command-economy a command economy which is what Marxist governments used in the 20th century like in the USSR or Warsaw Bloc countries. The government would in effect dictate what industries were prioritized, etc. So, yeah it has everything to do with Marxism and is a Marxist plan.

Governments ALWAYS are intervening in markets. Some markets would not exist (e.g. the banking sector) without the laws and regulations the governments provides. Governments often decide to bad whole sectors which are seen as detrimental to society. Would you call government intervention to criminalize the sale of crack cocaine or meth Marxism?? Through government regulation we are gradually phasing out the tobacco industry too. There is no debate about whether governments should intervene at all in markets, it is only a question of how much. Again you can disagree with where the line should be, but just because someone wants a little more intervention than you do doesn't make them a Marxist or their concerns Marxist.

How does the Green New Deal directly relate to Marxism beyond Command Economy tenets? It operates under the fake belief in Global Warming. All Global Warming is, is a catch all umbrella term that allows the ‘Democrats’ or Marxists to push for greater government intervention in the private sector and private citizens lives in an insane and fake effort to control the climate. It simply is Green-Communism and naturally the whole idea for Global Warming or Global Cooling (whatever they are calling it now adays) came from the Soviet Union in the 1980s. It’s fake and an excuse to dictate and control people’s lives. It’s so sad that so many people are brainwashed by this lie. Even if it was real there is nothing we can do about it.

You really are insane. You really believe that it is all a conspiracy?? Who is the leader? George Soros perhaps?

Even if global warming does not turn out as bad as feared there are many other reasons to wean ourselves from fossil fuels. From the other pollution they generate, to the fact that we will eventually run out of them, to the fact that it causes us to need to get involved in too many wars. To say we should just ignore all their negative effects is beyond madness.

[Randomizer]

The US government has a long history of nationalizing private businesses for the good of the people.

Look at Amtrak which took over passenger rail service from several private railroads. It unified into one system several different lines that pretty much didn't compete since they ran in different parts of the country. True it hasn't been cost effective for most of its line, but neither were the private companies. If it was still run by private companies it would close down routes that are the primary transportation systems for lots of rural areas that don't have air or bus service.

From
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44973.pdf

"Amtrak was created because private-sector railroad companies in the United States lost money for decades operating intercity passenger rail service and wished to be relieved of the obligation to do so."

[flash2015]

New York subway system is another example too. It was at one point three different companies (BMT, IRT and the third one I forgot).

[Randomizer]

@ND - There is a significant difference between what you consider Marxism in Western countries where they set up a system of national healthcare to benefit the people and Nationalism where a country seizes private businesses to exploit the wealth from them like taking oil and other natural resource companies in Communist and Third World countries.

Sure the US government doesn't have a great record with healthcare as seen in the VA system, but the private sector isn't better with denial of care and running up costs with unnecessary medical care.

[Stressedlines]

random, I am not gonna comment on mnost of the other items, cuz it seems like a shit slinging contest, but honestly until the VA gets fixed, I am not okay with the government becoming involvd in another healthcare management program

I am not happy with the private right now, but as someone who uses the VA a lot, its a steaming pile of dogshit