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EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:33 pm
by Senlac
Hi Folks,
I almost never start threads, but this one shocked me sufficiently to do so & get opinion. Read the news today & one word ran through my head, Unbelievable!
Talk about Big Brother. I cannot believe this technology is really about speed law enforcement.
I left Europe 20 years ago, never to return, so for me it’s just a news item, but bloody hell. What do you guys/girls think?
Senlac
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:11 pm
by ksako8
Do you have a link?
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:32 pm
by Octavious
It'll do wonders for the second hand market!
To be honest it's been the direction of travel for a while. We are approaching the beginning of the end of the era of the car driver.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:39 pm
by ksako8
In twenty years it will be criminal to drive yourself
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:03 pm
by Senlac
ksako8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:11 pm
Do you have a link?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonrei ... arliament/
Forbes is generally reputable. Enjoy.
Data logging, GPS, Mandatory, Just Scary in my opinion.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:18 pm
by Senlac
ksako8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:39 pm
In twenty years it will be criminal to drive yourself
Thank God where I live these wonderful state sponsored “safety features” are very unlikely to happen.
I drive a 58 Land Rover & a 73 Triumph Bonneville. No GPS & in one case the speedo hasn’t operated in over 5 years. The only thing “electronic” are the ignitions that I installed with my own hands. The traffic police are buddies that you greet with a wave as you go past. There are speed limits (loosely policed) & only total maniacs get a ticket (a modest one).
And then they call the “first world” civilisation. It’s becoming a prison camp!
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 pm
by flash2015
Just like it is almost impossible to buy a "dumb" TV, connected cars are already becoming more and more common. Soon it will be almost impossible not to buy a non-connected car as there is too much money to be made spying on people. And this is all happening before any government involvement.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:14 pm
by orathaic
Safety features upon safety features, I'm only surprised insurance companies aren't pushing them.
I know one colleague is getting a box installed in her car to track her driving (i think she is only insured for the first 10,000 km, and has to pay for the next 5,000km or whatever the figures are).
But when you see things like Lane detection (so lorry and bus drivers get a vibration in their car if the vechile is leaving its lane) and anti-lock braking, and seat belts... Every little safety feature is automating away a small part of driving (automatic gear boxes, cruise control, and some steering). I will be very surprised that any human input is allowed into driving in 20 years (Uber want driverless Ubers...)
We're just going to have to go through a weird legal phase where 'drivers' are responsible for what their car does, but the car does almost all the driving itself... And the driver falls asleep, because their is nothing else to do. But slowly trust in Autos will grow, and the public will call for banning human drivers completely (except on private race tracks... Just like horse riding is still a thing, people will still driver for pleasure and competitions... Not to get from point A to point B).
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:19 pm
by orathaic
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:45 pm
by Senlac
orathaic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:14 pm
Safety features upon safety features, I'm only surprised insurance companies aren't pushing them.
I know one colleague is getting a box installed in her car to track her driving (i think she is only insured for the first 10,000 km, and has to pay for the next 5,000km or whatever the figures are).
But when you see things like Lane detection (so lorry and bus drivers get a vibration in their car if the vechile is leaving its lane) and anti-lock braking, and seat belts... Every little safety feature is automating away a small part of driving (automatic gear boxes, cruise control, and some steering). I will be very surprised that any human input is allowed into driving in 20 years (Uber want driverless Ubers...)
We're just going to have to go through a weird legal phase where 'drivers' are responsible for what their car does, but the car does almost all the driving itself... And the driver falls asleep, because their is nothing else to do. But slowly trust in Autos will grow, and the public will call for banning human drivers completely (except on private race tracks... Just like horse riding is still a thing, people will still driver for pleasure and competitions... Not to get from point A to point B).
Yes to all above. But this is getting so close to mankind serving technology, not the way it’s supposed to be. So many “innovations” now, just aren’t. They are simply ways to limit human freedom with the help of technology.
Smart energy meters,TV’s, cars, electronic payment systems, immigration control at airports, surveillance & policing. None of it benefits us, the people.
I can so honestly say I’m happy to have grown up without this bullshit & will depart this earth before the worst of it reaches me in my tranquil tropical corner, where I can still ride a motorcycle without GPS (or a speedometer!)
Not as fast as when I was young, but I still try occasionally:-)
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:46 am
by Octavious
I don't see things working out quite how Ora suggests. Essentially replacing the current system with more of the same but with computers doing the driving seems unlikely. I think it's far more probable we will see the rise of the electric bike or electric mini cars in cities, with more traditional looking cars serving in the country and for longer distance travel for many years to come. Computer controlled on motorways and major routes, perhaps, but driving in lanes I suspect is beyond an AI and will continue to be for many decades.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:04 am
by Senlac
Do folks think there comes a point where people stop buying cars in protest or other methods of showing disapproval, or will it be a case of giving in to privacy violations & limits on freedom? Is there a point where the people push back on technology en masse or was that fight lost with the Luddites?
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:10 pm
by Senlac
Senlac wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:04 am
Do folks think there comes a point where people stop buying cars in protest or other methods of showing disapproval, or will it be a case of giving in to privacy violations & limits on freedom? Is there a point where the people push back on technology en masse or was that fight lost with the Luddites?
Yep, my horror puts me in the minority according to EU research on their “Intelligent Speed Assist” rule. Apparently 78% think it’s a fine idea. Oh well, back to my Luddite tropical paradise cave. Not my problem.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:29 pm
by Octavious
It's the black box data recorders that are the most disturbing.
Still, time will tell how the people truly view it. What people find unacceptable is an interesting matter for study.
To give a fun example. There is a chemicals manufacturing plant in England that is positioned adjacent to a lot of residential housing. It makes a lot of potentially really nasty stuff, and stores large quantities of this within a few hundred meters of the housing and a school, and under a flight path to the nearby airport for good measure. The residents were utterly unconcerned by this.
...the chemicals plant then applied to install a small and pretty harmless incinerator...
Massive public outrage followed, with protests and MP involvement and all kinds of fuss.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:22 pm
by peterlund
Well I look forward to the day when I do not need drive my car myself and then I am also happy if it keeps itself within the speed limits when do something more interesting than driving when being just a passenger...
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:16 pm
by Jamiet99uk
Hopefully in the near enough future we will not need cars at all. I do not have one, and I manage fine.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:27 pm
by Senlac
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:16 pm
Hopefully in the near enough future we will not need cars at all. I do not have one, and I manage fine.
If I lived in England neither would I. Motoring is a total drag, traffic jams, speed cameras on empty country lanes, congestion fees, toll bridges & roads, you name it. I did a trip down “memory lane” in 2007 & after 2 weeks handing back the rental car keys was cause for celebration. In 1999 it wasn’t like that. Something changed & it wasn’t for the better. Car free looks the way to go now.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:50 pm
by Octavious
The only thing that changed is that you lost the knack :p.
I started driving around '99, and there are fewer tolls and fewer jams now than there were then. The biggest changes are that cars are a lot more comfortable, exhausts are a lot less sickening, radio has improved enormously, and cars a lot more reliable. Road usage levels have stayed pretty much the same, road maintenance is poor, but it was ever thus.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:54 am
by MajorMitchell
Don't want to pay a speeding fines, then don't speed on a public road. Go to a private race track or similar.. Best bang for buck imho in amatuer motor sports, in Australia, are go carts.. relatively affordable and certainly capable of giving an adrenaline filled white knuckle ride.
Re: EU Speed Law Enforcement 2022 Onwards
Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:29 am
by Octavious
Sticking to the speed limit is not a simple task. I don't think that there's a single driver with any significant mileage under their belt who can claim never to have exceeded the limit. Sometimes it is deliberate (there are times, such as when overtaking, when a bit more speed can reduce risk), but often it is unintentional (say you're somewhere new and the signage has been blocked by vegetation or another vehicle). And all drivers will make errors from time to time.
The fines, therefore, can become something of a lottery.
It is rather scary for motorway driving, where our supposedly intelligent managed motorways can change limits from 70 to 40 in the blink of an eye. Human drivers tend to adjust to the new limits relatively sensibly, but the idea of the shiny new BMW in front of you seeing a 40 limit materialize and happily cutting off its power is a new hazard I'm not enthusiastic about encountering. The old van that's been tailgating said BMW, and lurches into your lane in an evasive manoeuvre... even less so.