MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[teacher2]

Im inclined to see Brain v. Jamie as TvT, though Im mighty close to casting a policy vote on Brain for being a jerk. This is a GAME, be sports. I think Jamie has raised legitimate issues, but ones that dont ultimately hold up for me - so townish scumhunting, even if I disagree. And I think Brain is being too much of a jerk for him to be scum, but Im planning on meta'ing while Im online this session and doing a readslist.

@Jamie: Take a step outside yourself and think, have you ever seen a crumb/scumslip that obvious in any game? I havent. And even if I had, I dont think Brain would be the one to make it.

@Brain: Youre getting really pissed at Jamie for overreading a shitpost of yours. But you did the same to Fox's shitpost. Why are the situations different? Also, Im still wondering about the self-vote. You explained it as not wanting to no-lynch but we were 25hrs+ from the deadline so its not like it mattered. Any other reason?

@Board: The other meta I want to do is Vecna. They shitposted but then completely disappeared. Thoughts?

@Doubting: You said you didnt want to be the deciding vote, but then actually moved your vote to tie the wagons and make it a no-lynch situation. Why? Why are you afraid of being the deciding vote?

@PeterLund: I dont think Brain v. Jamie was theater, especially since scum dont have daychat, I think the level of personal vitriol there was genuine. Did anything/any line in particular make you think it was staged?

@Bozo: Youve talked alot about tracker claims and other mechanics, but nothing about people's play. Thoughts?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie: Take a step outside yourself and think, have you ever seen a crumb/scumslip that obvious in any game? I havent. And even if I had, I dont think Brain would be the one to make it.

I've seen a much worse one, some time ago. It was from Bo_Sox, and we lynched him for it (and he was indeed scum).

Look, I'm not suggesting I'm 100% certain Brainbomb's comment was a scumslip. All I've said is that it caused me to suspect him.

Brainbomb himself could resolve this situation and allay my concerns by giving an explanation of what the post in question was actually intending to communicate. He has repeatedly refused to do so, for increasingly spurious reasons.

I now think Brainbomb's reaction is more informative than his initial slip (if it was, indeed, a slip).

Why can't he just clarify the matter and explain himself? Why the anger? Why the ad-hominems? Why "admitting" he is Mafia? Why the rule-breaking concession claim? Why can he not just answer my damn question?

[bozotheclown]

@teacher: I have been trying to determine if the Jamie vs. brainbomb activity means anything. It probably doesn't, but I think it is always hard to tell if brainbomb is town or scum.

I do not find anyone particularly suspicious yet. I have not seen any reason to suspect flash so I will remove my early vote for him.

##UNVOTE

I would be willing to lynch a lurker, but I do not want to vote for BismarckAlive without giving him more time to post, there is still a lot of time left in D1.

[BismarckAlive]

Alas, my silence is being misinterpreted and I am being voted to be lynched!
Know me first before you cast your stones towards me.
I was in hospital this day past, so beg forgiveness for the silence.
Now, to last night's visits. Who can tell me what happened to them?

[teacher2]

Thanks Bozo, and welcome Bismark. Im in the midst of drafting my reads, which I will post soon enough, but for now ##vote PeterLund

[bozotheclown]

Alas, my silence is being misinterpreted and I am being voted to be lynched!
Know me first before you cast your stones towards me.
I was in hospital this day past, so beg forgiveness for the silence.
Now, to last night's visits. Who can tell me what happened to them?

Sorry to hear that, I hope you are feeling better. Is this your first mafia game here? The games here traditionally start with a day phase, so there were no visits yet.

[bozotheclown]

I think it is possible that DemonRHK could use lurking as a scum strategy, so I will put my vote on him, at least until he shows up.

##VOTE DemonRHK

[teacher2]

Reads & Questions through Post 262 (takes a while to draft in a game this big, so don’t update from when I start):

• Bismarck: HA. Null, but am not happy there is a leading wagon here since it’s a waste when it could be a modkill. My vote is moving, and I encourage others to do likewise.
• Bozo: More active than our last game, but primarily mechanical so far. Don’t disagree with mechanical thoughts. Null-town pending answers to my previous questions.
• Brain: Ive talked about him too much already. The meta dive made it seem like his posting here was even more “brainy” than his normal game in either alignment, but certainly more than M30 as scum. @DrCJG – what game in particular did you think it was similar to? Still inclined to townlean based on what felt like genuine vitriol rather than OMGUS.
• Damo: modkill, but same as he was as VT in newb game.
• Demon: modkill, but different than he was as VT in M36.
• Doubting: I’ll agree with others commenting on a weak start, but Im still inclined to give newbs the benefit of the doubt. Null pending answers to my previous questions.
• DrCJG: Is not going to get better than a null from me ever again, given how he’s cakewalked me twice. I liked the nolynch tweak, I liked his push for Jamie to out the “scumslip” after conversation had initially passed it by. Null-town (Better than a null!)
• Flash2015:A newb that gets it, and gets my best townread because of it. To be honest, I have some fear of DrCJG’s evil twin/cousin here, and get some LAMIST vibes from this post, which seems to be forced scumhunting on was a fairly obvious joke wagon from RVS. But that’s probably paranoia; I really like how he is advancing the game and his progression, including the turn around on Brain. Town-read.
• Fox: I’ll be contrarian and view the no-lynch as NAI. I actually normally advocate for it in more vanilla setups. But there are too many killers here. (To respond to your question, a no lynch probably does not put off Mafia win condition given all the night killings; I can break this down longer if desired.) I liked your breakdown of the Brain-Jamie options, and your defense of the absentees. You make me laugh. But something still is pinging me. Null.
• Jamie: Townlean for the scumhunting, even if I disagree with it. Would love for you to get out of your tunnel though.
• PeterLund: Feels like a similar lurky D1 to M36, where you were PR. But PRs and Scums have fairly similar motivations. We were just getting out of RVS right in the prime of your posting time, but you didn’t say much. Plus, I strongly disagree with what you did say, that Brain-Jamie could be svs theater. Scumlean til you explain that more (previous question).
• Raging: Has posted a fair amount without actually making an impression. He felt more solvey/involved in M36 as a town!PR, but the difference could be due to the sim. Also didn’t like the focus on the Brain wagon; it felt forced when to me it’s a fairly legit place to be, particularly as a new player, in part as policy and in part due to Jamie’s case. Null-scum.
• RdRivera: Similar to Ike in terms of number of posts versus actual impression. But doesn’t feel as forced—posts came earlier in the game during the shitposting phase, and seemed to be interacting for reads rather than steering. Null pending further activity.
• Teacher: Dirtbag.
• thedipplayer: low-post newb, but the first person to actually pick up on the “scymslop”. Null-town.
• Vecna: Shitposting then lurking is consistent with meta. Null pending further activity.
• Worcej: I like the soft defense of Brain and Damo, even if the bloodthirstiness from the start (and the “gunna”) both pinged me a bit. Null-town.
• Yavuz: Townlean from genuine, weighty posts. I had this from the start, when he asked if he should be townreading me. He now says that wasn’t a genuine question, but it was consistent with what I know of his style. I do think he’d try to lynch me as scum, but I think he’d actually try to make a case for it rather than just say gut. To be honest, this read is more based on feelz than content, but it is what it is.

[brainbomb]

Ugh

I dont have any scumreads now.

I really dont know how to play anymore.

[flash2015]

Whoa whoa whoa... The only confidence I have in Brainbomb is that he's erratic and prone to fuckery whether he's town or scum. Excepting the joke post, I don't have a read on Brainbomb one way or another yet.

I have a story - bear with me.

Being born an Aussie I am used to not taking things to seriously. Soon after Sept 11, 2001 I had to go to Israel for work. If you have ever been to Israel, you know the airport security is crazy especially when leaving from Israel, and especially since everything was on high alert at that time. Bonus points of course for young adult males travelling alone or in groups.

Anyway, when coming home from Israel one time with a American-Israeli colleague while one of the security people was checking my passport I joked that "I printed it this morning". When we finally got through security my colleague gave me an absolute earful which I thought was a vast overreaction at the time. It was only a joke!

When I came home to Australia to visit family not that long after that I remembered seeing signs in the airport warning about making jokes about bombs in bags etc (I wish I had taken a picture). Again, I thought this was being silly.

But after thinking about this a while I realized why this was an issue. Because the jokes/lack of seriousness made it harder to determine the jokes from the real "slips" (I was probably lucky not to have had a full-on cavity search when leaving Israel that time).

How does this relate to the mafia game? Just like letting people joke about bombs etc, letting people play the "meta" in mafia makes it harder for town to win because all the metagaming may obscure a real scumslip...and thus make town lose. We shouldn't make it easy for scum - If someone tries to metagame and does not obviously show their town cred, we should automatically treat them with suspicion...like Brainbomb. This will force mafia to work harder...and hopefully make them easier to spot.

[teacher2]

if a majority of players vote ##END

FYI, the bot has you voting End for this.

[brainbomb]

Whoa whoa whoa... The only confidence I have in Brainbomb is that he's erratic and prone to fuckery whether he's town or scum. Excepting the joke post, I don't have a read on Brainbomb one way or another yet.

I have a story - bear with me.

Being born an Aussie I am used to not taking things to seriously. Soon after Sept 11, 2001 I had to go to Israel for work. If you have ever been to Israel, you know the airport security is crazy especially when leaving from Israel, and especially since everything was on high alert at that time. Bonus points of course for young adult males travelling alone or in groups.

Anyway, when coming home from Israel one time with a American-Israeli colleague while one of the security people was checking my passport I joked that "I printed it this morning". When we finally got through security my colleague gave me an absolute earful which I thought was a vast overreaction at the time. It was only a joke!

When I came home to Australia to visit family not that long after that I remembered seeing signs in the airport warning about making jokes about bombs in bags etc (I wish I had taken a picture). Again, I thought this was being silly.

But after thinking about this a while I realized why this was an issue. Because the jokes/lack of seriousness made it harder to determine the jokes from the real "slips" (I was probably lucky not to have had a full-on cavity search when leaving Israel that time).

How does this relate to the mafia game? Just like letting people joke about bombs etc, letting people play the "meta" in mafia makes it harder for town to win because all the metagaming may obscure a real scumslip...and thus make town lose. We shouldn't make it easy for scum - If someone tries to metagame and does not obviously show their town cred, we should automatically treat them with suspicion...like Brainbomb. This will force mafia to work harder...and hopefully make them easier to spot.

Jesus freaking christ man I cant believe you would compare me saying I was a werewolf resisting the urge to feed, and compare that to me being a terrorist.

Thats beyond incredibly fucked up to try to justify your read with that bullshit.

[dargorygel]

Vote Count 1.4
Brainbomb (4) Jamiet99uk, yavuzovic, thedipplayer, flash2015
BismarckAlive (3) DrCjg, Brainbomb. Doubting Thomas
Vecna (1)Peterlund
DrCjg (1) worcej
Jamiet99uk (1) vecna
No-lynch (1) Foxcastle
Damo666 (1) RagingIke297
Peterlund (1) teacher2
DemonRHK (1) bozotheclown

endvotes 2/10

currently Brainbomb is set to be lynched.
18 hours left in this day
Still needing to vote: BismarckAlive, damo666, DemonRHK, rdrviera2005
Still needing to post: Damo666, DemonRHk
Modkilling will result from non-posting compliance and non-voting compliance.

[flash2015]

##CALL GM Is it OK to send a private message to the players that have not posted yet to encourage them to vote?

[flash2015]

##CALL GM Is it OK to send a private message to the players that have not posted yet to encourage them to vote?

I mean encourage them to post.

[brainbomb]

Jamie does that every game too. Sure why not!

[brainbomb]

If you think my post claiming to be a werewolf resisting urges to become a town eater is me slipping as scum then your a fucking moron.

If you think im not trying to evaluate people, please stop playing, go play stratego and stfu.

If your voting me because im hiding my scum buddies, how bout you get off your ass and try asking questions to find who you think they are.

If you think im a jerk. Go fuck yourself and grow a spine.

If you demand answers to meaningless bullshit,dont expect to live very long. Nobody cares if you think your questions matter bro. They dont. Theyll lynch you and have zero qualms doing so.

Im never gonna lynch anyone unless im certain they are my enemy. If you have a problem with that you dont know how to play.

[flash2015]

I don't know why you are getting so emotional. If it is an act, it isn't very convincing. If it isn't an act, stop taking the game so seriously!

[rdrivera2005]

Well, I had visits to dinner tonight and now I am struggling to be up-to-date with the thread. I don't think Brain scum slipped. I think he overreacted, but this is NAI for him. I find interesting people joining Brain wagon without much reasoning.
I will now read the last three pages.

[brainbomb]

I don't know why you are getting so emotional. If it is an act, it isn't very convincing. If it isn't an act, stop taking the game so seriously!

I just want people to play mafia without being a bunch of limp dick yes men. Think ffs