MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[Vecna]

public displays of guessing games, asking people to respond to certain types of mechanical preposition stuff.

Pretty sure I remember you doing that sort of stuff and everyone giving you pass for it, even though you did nothing whatsoever with the outcomes.

[Foxcastle]

public displays of guessing games, asking people to respond to certain types of mechanical preposition stuff.

Pretty sure I remember you doing that sort of stuff and everyone giving you pass for it, even though you did nothing whatsoever with the outcomes.

I’m playing in my phone while on vacation at a river house with shitty WiFi and no cell service, so I’m not going to do a big refutation, but your assertion here is garbage.

This is exactly the kind of thing you do as scum and have never done as town.

(See how that works and why it’s trash?)

[Vecna]

Its fine Foxy, go and enjoy a swim. I had an itchy feeling and I felt the need to press you on it. Your extreme sense of indignation about my points probably is a decent indicator I mightve been wrong.

Ill find someone else to harass for now.

How do you feel about Bozo?

[bozotheclown]

Also, I cannot help but feel that Bozo's idea would be truely helpfull to that second 3rd party thingy that needs to control/eliminate all PRs.

Agenda Bozo? You wanna infiltrate them PR's buddy?

One of the goals of the hypo claims is to help keep the PRs hidden as long as possible. Take the Weak Doctor, for instance, if that role exists. The Weak Doctor would want to leave some clue who they targeted in case they targeted a mafia and got killed. However, these kinds of clues can help the mafia and 3P identify the player as a PR. If everyone participated in hypo claiming Weak Doctor targets, the Weak Doctor would not have to try to give any other clues, and the mafia and 3P would only have Weak Doctor claims from everyone without even knowing if Weak Doctor is an active role.

I had not considered the Witch role, and although it does not seem likely a Witch would be able to reach their win condition, the possibility of a Witch is another reason why we should consider hypo claims to help keep the PRs hidden.

[seth24c]

One thing that could be interesting this game is hypo claims. For instance, each night we could have everyone claim who they would target if they were the Desperado, so that if there is a Desperado, and the Desperado gets killed by targeting a town, we would have a town clear. The same could work for the Bodyguard. We could also consider hypo claiming results for all potential investigative roles.

This is an interesting idea though. I think it might be worth it to think about the bodyguard, weak doctor, and desperado. If we all claim who we would target if we were these roles, it could provide useful information. I think the strongest candidate is the weak doctor, since instead of providing a town clear, it could potentially out a mafia player if the weak doctor dies during the night. (Unless the weak doctor is the only player killed, which means the mafia simply killed the doctor)

I think hypo Weak Doctor claims is a good idea. For the Bodyguard and Weak Doctor, it would be ideal for the hypo claims to be made at EON, but since that would limit participation, I think everyone claiming sometime during the night is still beneficial.

This just seems so tedious to try to accomplish. Especially since there are so many potential roles in this set up this could be a tool for scum to easily blend in without much risk of exposing themselves in more pointed conversations. If the weak doctor really is in play that would obviously be extremely helpful to get the confirmed scum from a save resulting in doctor death but maybe we should just leave it up to their discretion when they should actually claim?

[Vecna]

Also, I cannot help but feel that Bozo's idea would be truely helpfull to that second 3rd party thingy that needs to control/eliminate all PRs.

Agenda Bozo? You wanna infiltrate them PR's buddy?

One of the goals of the hypo claims is to help keep the PRs hidden as long as possible. Take the Weak Doctor, for instance, if that role exists. The Weak Doctor would want to leave some clue who they targeted in case they targeted a mafia and got killed. However, these kinds of clues can help the mafia and 3P identify the player as a PR. If everyone participated in hypo claiming Weak Doctor targets, the Weak Doctor would not have to try to give any other clues, and the mafia and 3P would only have Weak Doctor claims from everyone without even knowing if Weak Doctor is an active role.

I had not considered the Witch role, and although it does not seem likely a Witch would be able to reach their win condition, the possibility of a Witch is another reason why we should consider hypo claims to help keep the PRs hidden.

This is a two cutting sword though. If half the playerlist responds, the scum can narrow down by removing anyone that claimed to have targetted a scum member but did not end up dying. This is especially bad if it is announced by people before EoN.

Also, I do not see why you think the witch is so weak. It just needs to survive, those PRs will die a natural death as a consequence of the actual game going on.

[Foxcastle]

Its fine Foxy, go and enjoy a swim. I had an itchy feeling and I felt the need to press you on it. Your extreme sense of indignation about my points probably is a decent indicator I mightve been wrong.

Ill find someone else to harass for now.

How do you feel about Bozo?

Yeah, I was just realizing that playing on a tiny screen seems to focus me inordinately on specific things, making it easier to reply to you about whatever than to move on.

Bozo is often hard for me to read, but I don’t see anything specific to dislike. The hypo-claims thing could be low key PR fishing (hoping to gauge reactions to discern what PRs are actually in play).

[bozotheclown]

This is an interesting idea though. I think it might be worth it to think about the bodyguard, weak doctor, and desperado. If we all claim who we would target if we were these roles, it could provide useful information. I think the strongest candidate is the weak doctor, since instead of providing a town clear, it could potentially out a mafia player if the weak doctor dies during the night. (Unless the weak doctor is the only player killed, which means the mafia simply killed the doctor)

I think hypo Weak Doctor claims is a good idea. For the Bodyguard and Weak Doctor, it would be ideal for the hypo claims to be made at EON, but since that would limit participation, I think everyone claiming sometime during the night is still beneficial.

This just seems so tedious to try to accomplish. Especially since there are so many potential roles in this set up this could be a tool for scum to easily blend in without much risk of exposing themselves in more pointed conversations. If the weak doctor really is in play that would obviously be extremely helpful to get the confirmed scum from a save resulting in doctor death but maybe we should just leave it up to their discretion when they should actually claim?

The problem is the Weak Doctor will be dead if they target a mafia, so they ideally would want to indicate their target each night in case they get killed. Hype Weak Doctor claims allow them to do that without making it obvious what they are doing.

[Vecna]

I bet John Lowe is either very happy or very nervous about all this attention he's getting from all the mechfanatics. We've already devoted the initial stage of the game to making his lie detector days better, lets not get stranded in an endless discussion on this now. People can help out if they want, if the weak doc does a good job it shouldnt take him more than 2 nights to find a scum and get himself killed.

Ill participate in helping out the weak doc. I guess it does seem useful since hes like a combination package of a doc and a cop in one.

[ghug]

I still think we're more likely to out the weak doc than save him doing this.

Starting to townread:
Vecna for hating the game start
Foxy for already seeming more into it than last game. Also whining at Rd about the spreadsheet thing strikes me as more likely to be a town thing.
Damo a little for thinking the game is scum sided, but everything else he's done has been such deeply garbage and I really really hate British people.

[bozotheclown]

Such a filler post. Like bozo would be unaware what the 3P does and not account for that possibility, ever.

I have a feeling Bozo is some witchlock thingymajick

I was aware of the potential 3P roles, and I do not think they are a reason not to try hypo claims. Nevertheless, seth had a good point about the potential for PR actions to be redirected and that we need to consider that possibility in case one of our PRs that could end up dead by their own actions gets killed.

[Vecna]

When are we finally going to roll scum together Ghug?

It feels like its been an eternity since I last played a game with you regardless

[Hellenic Riot]

I mean looking at the Weak Doc - screw hypo-doccing, why bother risking a save in the first place? Better for it, if it exists, to stick around for the long term by no-saving until we inevitably have an outed PR - which the Weak Doc would then save to confirm it's real.

[Vecna]

id argue that wasting a cop just feels silly. It might not be able to find the 3P, but if it can create an inno and find a scum (which is pretty much to be the expected outcome) thats pretty decent

[Vecna]

anyways, look at me starting to be tempted by the damn mech discussions

[rdrivera2005]

Why u trying to get Rdrivera to attack someone you townread tho?

Because I want Rdrivera to distribute his condemnations consistently.

Why are you suggesting that I shouldn’t ask Rdrivera to take a position on Damo?

What are your town reads, Vecna? I need to know so that later on, I can call you out for moving away from the reactions you had 16 hours into day one. /s

I think you are wrong about me. I don't hate spreadsheets ( I use them a lot and a long time ago I even teached how to use Excel effectively for first period engineering students).
I don't like when people focus only on spreadsheets or probabilities. Damo stats are useless but he is playing and talking about other things, so why should I bother?

[damo666]

I still think we're more likely to out the weak doc than save him doing this.

Starting to townread:
Vecna for hating the game start
Foxy for already seeming more into it than last game. Also whining at Rd about the spreadsheet thing strikes me as more likely to be a town thing.
Damo a little for thinking the game is scum sided, but everything else he's done has been such deeply garbage and I really really hate British people.

Royalists, roundheads or all of them?

[bozotheclown]

I mean looking at the Weak Doc - screw hypo-doccing, why bother risking a save in the first place? Better for it, if it exists, to stick around for the long term by no-saving until we inevitably have an outed PR - which the Weak Doc would then save to confirm it's real.

That would be one way of utilizing the Weak Doctor, and hypo claiming would not preclude then from doing that, but I think the Weak Doctor role is too power to use in that way. I think they should try to target town, and every night they survive they have a strong indication of a town ID (not a complete clear because of the potential manipulation). With the hypo claims, we would know exactly what they did without them ever having to leave addition clues. So, if the Weak Doctor survived until N5, and was a second kill that night, we would know 4 players they survived visiting and 1 player they dies visiting.

[rdrivera2005]

Also, I cannot help but feel that Bozo's idea would be truely helpfull to that second 3rd party thingy that needs to control/eliminate all PRs.

Agenda Bozo? You wanna infiltrate them PR's buddy?

One of the goals of the hypo claims is to help keep the PRs hidden as long as possible. Take the Weak Doctor, for instance, if that role exists. The Weak Doctor would want to leave some clue who they targeted in case they targeted a mafia and got killed. However, these kinds of clues can help the mafia and 3P identify the player as a PR. If everyone participated in hypo claiming Weak Doctor targets, the Weak Doctor would not have to try to give any other clues, and the mafia and 3P would only have Weak Doctor claims from everyone without even knowing if Weak Doctor is an active role.

I had not considered the Witch role, and although it does not seem likely a Witch would be able to reach their win condition, the possibility of a Witch is another reason why we should consider hypo claims to help keep the PRs hidden.

This is a two cutting sword though. If half the playerlist responds, the scum can narrow down by removing anyone that claimed to have targetted a scum member but did not end up dying. This is especially bad if it is announced by people before EoN.

Also, I do not see why you think the witch is so weak. It just needs to survive, those PRs will die a natural death as a consequence of the actual game going on.

But with an open setup scum can't even know if there is a Weak doctor or not, so it really doesn't narrow much the field for scum if enough players participate. The problem is to announce before EON as scum could just change his kill or RB to avoid a possible PR action.
So, I think we shouldn't go for it and just let PR play.

[ghug]

When are we finally going to roll scum together Ghug?

It feels like its been an eternity since I last played a game with you regardless

Someday, baby. Yeah I hadn't played in like a year until Flum talked me into the last one.