M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[xorxes]

How could your townread of emc have evaporated when emc has done nothing (except be replaced) since your read of him?

Vecna managed to squander it. Just rereading emc I still find him towny, btw.

I'm not sure how this is different from Neph, whom you townread. Just because Chaqa was voting for you?

Correct. Neph could have voted for me and secure a mislynch, but he didn't. So I think that makes him more likely town. Also, at the time he last posted the vote was 4-2-2 and there was no way to predict it would be a tie. It may be that he is scum who was satisfied with that result, and really had to leave for school and was not able to do anything about it when rivera and summit made it a tie. I'm guessing scum would make more of an effort to look like they're doing something with their vote though. I don't really townread him for much more than not voting for me at that point, when he had a good excuse to.

Chaqa could have voted for damo to break a tie but he didn't. And he explicitly mentioned the possibility of a tie in his last post, so he was well aware of the situation.

You said you believed Nephthys when he said he never looked at the vote count at D1 EOD, and now you are town reading him based on the assumption that he was not telling the truth and really did know the vote count and chose not to vote for you.

I said his story was believable, not exactly the same as saying I believed it, but I don't follow, where am I assuming he was not telling the truth?

When he posted, the votecount was 4-2-2. If he is scum, he could have voted for me then and secured a mislynch. He had already established that he would vote for me. If he is scum, he also could have let things stay that way in the assumption that I would be lynched anyway. But if he voted for me he surely would have secured the lynch.

[foodcoats]

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

[bozotheclown]

The one at Chaqa needs to explanation

As for xorx, there were cases, I agreed with them.
Damo, the intro looked a lil weird and I didn't like it

Then why were you responding to posts earlier than these, in order, at the beginning of D2 like you had never read that part of the thread before?

Because I forgot about this game. I forgot what was happening.

I refuse to answer anything further about this. It is getting ridiculous

If you are town, it would be better to try to explain this to those suspicious of you than having us want to lynch you to resolve it.

If I understand what you are saying, you had read the first 10 pages on D1 when you posted this:

Yea so I'm happy to ruthlessly butcher damo/xorx

Maybe Chaqa for lols

By the end of D1, you had forgot what was happening in the game, so you reread the first 10 pages at the beginning of D2 when you posted this:

First 10 pages
T
- Chaqa/Kgray/Food
S
- Xorx/Damo/Tom

Why was you opinion on Chaqa different the second time you read the first 10 pages?

[xorxes]

Basing your reads off of who did and didn't vote for you is super weird.

You don't think if he was scum he would have been delighted to lynch me?

Have you not read anything I've said all game?

I think you're scum together.

I know, but your comment about my read being weird only makes sense under the assumption that I'm town. Basing my read on him not voting for me is perfectly reasonable knowing that I'm town. You can say that my read is fake if you think I'm scum, but there's nothing weird about it.

[bozotheclown]

Vecna managed to squander it. Just rereading emc I still find him towny, btw.



Correct. Neph could have voted for me and secure a mislynch, but he didn't. So I think that makes him more likely town. Also, at the time he last posted the vote was 4-2-2 and there was no way to predict it would be a tie. It may be that he is scum who was satisfied with that result, and really had to leave for school and was not able to do anything about it when rivera and summit made it a tie. I'm guessing scum would make more of an effort to look like they're doing something with their vote though. I don't really townread him for much more than not voting for me at that point, when he had a good excuse to.

Chaqa could have voted for damo to break a tie but he didn't. And he explicitly mentioned the possibility of a tie in his last post, so he was well aware of the situation.

You said you believed Nephthys when he said he never looked at the vote count at D1 EOD, and now you are town reading him based on the assumption that he was not telling the truth and really did know the vote count and chose not to vote for you.

I said his story was believable, not exactly the same as saying I believed it, but I don't follow, where am I assuming he was not telling the truth?

When he posted, the votecount was 4-2-2. If he is scum, he could have voted for me then and secured a mislynch. He had already established that he would vote for me. If he is scum, he also could have let things stay that way in the assumption that I would be lynched anyway. But if he voted for me he surely would have secured the lynch.

Nephthys said he did not look at the vote count. If you believe that, then the vote count being 4-2-2 is irrelevant.

[Chaqa]

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

I think Neph can also be scum if both damo and xorxes are scum, but that seems unlikely at this point.

[bozotheclown]

For those who have ignored me:

Why are we not solving the Vecna and Summit situation out when one of them is probably scum?

There is no vecna and summit situation. There might be a summit situation.

You should be easily able to read my play here and make the right decision. You seemed to be able to do that just fine even before I started playing, so it should only be easier by now.

If you'll notice, my vote is not on you currently. I just find it awful that we most likely have a scum between two people and once again it is being ignored by the town.

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

[summit_fever]

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

Sure. I can say with certainty that neither one is on my top two lynches for day 2 (or day 1 for that matter). I also believe I could be wrong. Do you?

If you're trying out a new playstyle have you also been looking for how your new style may affect the play of others? Given the fact that you have had a huge influence on how the wagons have formed in this game, I think it's an important consideration and if you re-read the game with that in mind you may find something interesting that others would miss. I guess I'm worried that you are only inquisitive when you've already made up your mind.

[xorxes]

When he posted, the votecount was 4-2-2. If he is scum, he could have voted for me then and secured a mislynch. He had already established that he would vote for me. If he is scum, he also could have let things stay that way in the assumption that I would be lynched anyway. But if he voted for me he surely would have secured the lynch.

Nephthys said he did not look at the vote count. If you believe that, then the vote count being 4-2-2 is irrelevant.

OK, I didn't remember that part.

If he is scum, then whatever he said is irrelevant, just as likely to be false as true. In that case he would have realized, or his teammates could have told him, that voting for me would likely get me lynched. Or he might have left things as they were because they seemed to be going in a favorable direction, but why not make it seem that he was at least trying to do something useful?

If he is town, then what he said has to be true, and it explains why he didn't make a meaningful vote.

The second option seems more likely to me, but I can't be completely certain that he is not scum.

[worcej]

I am not arguing with any vig claims. I think food has been extremely towny this game and believe him 100%. I really don't think you've been towny at all, but I believe your claim unless someone else counterclaims. I disagree with your conclusion that we need to pick between summit and Vecna.

Welcome to the club of always scum reading me. Xorxes is the head of the table, you can be his 2nd in command if you want.

I don't like when people try to force a choice between two options. It makes me think that person is scum who knows the two options are both town and is happy with either. Bunny did this in lylo in M54 and won the game for scum. So I'm just as opposed to the argument that the vote should be damo vs xorxes as I am that it should be summit vs Vecna. It has nothing to do with believing your claim, I don't scumread you for making the suggestion, I'm just saying I don't agree with it.

This whole point is ridiculous. You're offered information about two players in the game from your two PR's that have claimed and have no counter claims and you continue to poke at it as if we are lying or that the other option, which is our town PR chose to commute one of the 4 of us players is the more likely situation.

Also, do you want me to explain why resolving this information now is more important? Because we are close to mylo. I'm not suggesting our last PR claims, but in the case of mylo (when they most likely will claim), the scum team could shove a CC out and then we're fucked if we get it wrong.

I think any of damo/xorxes/Vecna/summit provide good info. But I also don't like info lynches, and I'd rather vote for who I think is scummiest. Currently that is Neph. If everyone else wants to congregate on one of the above four, or make it 1v1 on one of those pairs, I will obviously join in so my vote matters. I'm not going to push for that, though, and I will continue to point out things that I don't think make sense.

Unfortunately, your opinion about who is scummiest is usually not right, like just about all of us. You need information to piece together scum actions/reads - especially in a world where you have players like Neph and myself who come off as 'scummy' because of our attitudes and how we post.

Anyways, we missed out on the D1 info lynch because we either have a scum in Damo or he is the last unclaimed PR. If he flips town as a VT, I will lose my shit in this thread and further about how terrible of a play that was and anyone who disagrees with me needs to learn how to play a TEAM game. Look how D2 has progressed. We are trying to resolve D1 again because there was vote movement that indicates scum activity. It would've been GREAT to know that Damo was town so we could immediately drill down at summit or Neph, instead of trying to figure out the same information we could've had one day earlier.

Sorry if you think I'm just being negative. This is how I play. Poking at people's logic helps me figure out how they're thinking and if they're coming from a town or scum perspective.

I don't have an issue with you poking, it's that you seem to assume the worst case and seem to not operate off information presented to you from your PRs. And if you try to compare my logic to someone like xorxes or bozo, I'll always be scum to you because I do not think or act like them.

[worcej]

See my response to kgray,

What about the other question?

And are you still voting for me because either way I flip you see it as an almost certain victory?

OK re double vote

'Almost certain' is probably ott however imo voting for you is the most likely path to a town victory. The lynch is quite likely to be me v you so I haven't much of a choice. And neither have you I guess.

The potential tragedy is that if you are town then day ! was TvT and whichever of us flips first the other will be next and we will have lost.

I know this will sound scummy to other townsfolk but if we are TvT is there someone we can agree to both vote for rather than each other?

OMG damo learned from M54??? Actually this is pretty townie to me.

IMO, based on GM'ing last game and prior experience, damo is actually not a good team player and will mostly want to do what he wants.

I don't think him suggesting that xorxes and himself should vote for someone else is town when he has intentionally tied the vote to protect himself and withhold information to town in order to protect his own life.

[foodcoats]

"SUMMIT IS GETTING SNARKY! WHAT DO WE DO, HIGH INQUISITOR?"
"ENGAGE EMPLOYMENT OF THE BOZOTHIAN METHOD!"

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

Sure. I can say with certainty that neither one is on my top two lynches for day 2 (or day 1 for that matter). I also believe I could be wrong. Do you?

If you're trying out a new playstyle have you also been looking for how your new style may affect the play of others? Given the fact that you have had a huge influence on how the wagons have formed in this game, I think it's an important consideration and if you re-read the game with that in mind you may find something interesting that others would miss. I guess I'm worried that you are only inquisitive when you've already made up your mind.

Thank you, summit.

What are your reads on the other players? Is there anyone who strikes you as particular scummy or townie so far? Who will you vote for?

town reads:

kgray/chaqa/food/bozo/Tom

neutral:

rdrivera/xorxes/emc/nephthys

scummy:

worcej/damo

[bozotheclown]

@kgray @summit_fever @bozotheclown

If you think Nephthys is scum, what is your explanation for EOD1? Do you think:

• that damo and xorxes are both town, and scum!Neph didn't care who got lynched?
• that damo and xorxes are both scum, and Neph carefully counted, expected emc not to vote, and crossed his fingers for a tie? or
• that only one of them is scum - perhaps damo, as xorxes was the lead wagon when Neph last posted in the thread - and Neph saw a town wagon in the lead and decided to decline to change votes?

I think the third choice would be the most likely, but if xorxes is scum, I do not know if he would take the chance of voting for damo there, because he would obviously would look suspicious if xorxes flipped scum. He also could have been monitoring the vote until EOD.

[damo666]

See my response to kgray,

What about the other question?

And are you still voting for me because either way I flip you see it as an almost certain victory?

OK re double vote

'Almost certain' is probably ott however imo voting for you is the most likely path to a town victory. The lynch is quite likely to be me v you so I haven't much of a choice. And neither have you I guess.

The potential tragedy is that if you are town then day ! was TvT and whichever of us flips first the other will be next and we will have lost.

I know this will sound scummy to other townsfolk but if we are TvT is there someone we can agree to both vote for rather than each other?

OMG damo learned from M54??? Actually this is pretty townie to me.

Yes, assuming the other half of a tied lynch in which one is involved is DEFINITELY scum can be disastrous!

[worcej]

There is no vecna and summit situation. There might be a summit situation.

You should be easily able to read my play here and make the right decision. You seemed to be able to do that just fine even before I started playing, so it should only be easier by now.

If you'll notice, my vote is not on you currently. I just find it awful that we most likely have a scum between two people and once again it is being ignored by the town.

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

[damo666]

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

##vote Neph

[bozotheclown]

If you'll notice, my vote is not on you currently. I just find it awful that we most likely have a scum between two people and once again it is being ignored by the town.

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

That is why I think we should wait until D2 on this when we should have that information.

[worcej]

We lynch summit even though the rest of the egotistical town seems to think that's not something we should do...

[worcej]

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

That is why I think we should wait until D2 on this when we should have that information.

It is D2...

[bozotheclown]

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

Either damo or xorxes, or both, could be scum, but I have not ruled out them both being town.