M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[Squigs44]

Thanks worcej! The game was great.

A question - where is the current results spreadsheet? Anyone planning to update it?

I "maintain" it, but it is months out of date. I might update it this weekend. It's linked on peterbot

[dargorygel]

Thanks worcej! The game was great.

A question - where is the current results spreadsheet? Anyone planning to update it?

I "maintain" it, but it is months out of date. I might update it this weekend. It's linked on peterbot

What? PETERBOT?? What are you, scum?????

[flash2015]

Eh, I found the ambiguity of closed setup to be a bit distracting.

Maybe if we had a page of normal roles + modifiers to work from and say "anything in here is legal", but we also have a lot of GMs that like to make new stuff up (including me).

Yes, I agree. It would be better if there was at least some bound on the potential roles...rather than spending too much time speculating on worcej's quite active imagination (e.g. should we have really been worried about the possibility of a scum lightning bolt? I didn't even know the role existed before this game).

[Chaqa]

EMC and I are starting to put together an Item-based game for either 56 or 57. A bit like Ike's Avengers game, tbh.

[Vecna]

https://imgur.com/259OHQC

Chipotle dont like that european money. Cant pay with cc's with a EU billing adress

[Chaqa]

The Camaro is a real rub

[Jamiet99uk]

EMC and I are starting to put together an Item-based game for either 56 or 57. A bit like Ike's Avengers game, tbh.

If you want a whole load of sample items, this game was an item madness setup:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=948

[Chaqa]

EMC and I are starting to put together an Item-based game for either 56 or 57. A bit like Ike's Avengers game, tbh.

If you want a whole load of sample items, this game was an item madness setup:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=948

Yep, EMC said to look at that one. Apparently I got shot mid day 1 lol

[Jamiet99uk]

EMC and I are starting to put together an Item-based game for either 56 or 57. A bit like Ike's Avengers game, tbh.

If you want a whole load of sample items, this game was an item madness setup:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=948

Yep, EMC said to look at that one. Apparently I got shot mid day 1 lol

I think it was MoscowFleet, not you.

[Chaqa]

"A SHOT IS FIRED!

CHAQA has DIED.

He was BARBIE, the Nice Toy."

It was both of us, apparently.

[worcej]

Eh, I found the ambiguity of closed setup to be a bit distracting.

Maybe if we had a page of normal roles + modifiers to work from and say "anything in here is legal", but we also have a lot of GMs that like to make new stuff up (including me).

Yes, I agree. It would be better if there was at least some bound on the potential roles...rather than spending too much time speculating on worcej's quite active imagination (e.g. should we have really been worried about the possibility of a scum lightning bolt? I didn't even know the role existed before this game).

A lot of people picked up on that a lot of the roles came from here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Category:Roles

I did make some tweaks on roles for personal flavor, but I will keep this in mind for my next closed setup so that it's less distracting. I will however point out that in the case of LR, it could be either alignment according to that site so it wouldn't have removed that conversation from the game.

[worcej]

Thank you GM and subs

Thanks all for the lack of toxicity.

I agree with Squigs that the best moment was how we somehow got Tem lynched in front of him.

Sorry to rain on the parade but although the game was interesting it wasnt the best fun wise for me...

I knew from a long way out scum had little to no chance of winning, I doubt any group of 4 could have pulled off a win with the set of roles in play. Being under the threat of mass claim was also uncomfortable, a detrimental if legitimate aspect of the game imo.

Now to address the elephant in the room; brain's meltdown definitely has an effect on the game . I thank him for his apology and hope he continues to play but brain please don't do it again. That's 2 games on a row and it really does put a dampener on things.

All these factors made me less engaged than I could have been and for this I particularly apologise to Bunny as he put in such a tremendous amount of effort in.

@worcej that must have been difficult to GM , it's not something I could do so despite my reservations about balance I think you did well.

I think part of the problem with your lack of fun was circumstances outside of my control, such as needing two subs during the game. That takes a lot of wind out of the sails of the team and I am incredibly thankful for Squigs and Bunny for stepping in, they both did great in a tight spot.

And I am not trying to be rude, but to call that the balance was off and scum had little chance from the get go (set of rules) is not really true. I'd argue you guys did not use your tools effectively for most of the game, especially near the end of the game. Take the last night phase as an example: You had two investigative roles in play - xorxes and summit, yet you once again stacked the RB and kill onto xorxes and left summit to get a free scan. That was just bad play.

In general, you seemed to put more value in keeping the RB hidden then actually using it effectively, which I believe was the biggest reason to your demise. As soon as summit claimed cop and got a guilty on Demon, your RB should've been planted there. Once Xorxes was a known investigative, you should've killed him instead of Jamie.

[Squigs44]

Thank you GM and subs

Thanks all for the lack of toxicity.

I agree with Squigs that the best moment was how we somehow got Tem lynched in front of him.

Sorry to rain on the parade but although the game was interesting it wasnt the best fun wise for me...

I knew from a long way out scum had little to no chance of winning, I doubt any group of 4 could have pulled off a win with the set of roles in play. Being under the threat of mass claim was also uncomfortable, a detrimental if legitimate aspect of the game imo.

Now to address the elephant in the room; brain's meltdown definitely has an effect on the game . I thank him for his apology and hope he continues to play but brain please don't do it again. That's 2 games on a row and it really does put a dampener on things.

All these factors made me less engaged than I could have been and for this I particularly apologise to Bunny as he put in such a tremendous amount of effort in.

@worcej that must have been difficult to GM , it's not something I could do so despite my reservations about balance I think you did well.

I think part of the problem with your lack of fun was circumstances outside of my control, such as needing two subs during the game. That takes a lot of wind out of the sails of the team and I am incredibly thankful for Squigs and Bunny for stepping in, they both did great in a tight spot.

And I am not trying to be rude, but to call that the balance was off and scum had little chance from the get go (set of rules) is not really true. I'd argue you guys did not use your tools effectively for most of the game, especially near the end of the game. Take the last night phase as an example: You had two investigative roles in play - xorxes and summit, yet you once again stacked the RB and kill onto xorxes and left summit to get a free scan. That was just bad play.

In general, you seemed to put more value in keeping the RB hidden then actually using it effectively, which I believe was the biggest reason to your demise. As soon as summit claimed cop and got a guilty on Demon, your RB should've been planted there. Once Xorxes was a known investigative, you should've killed him instead of Jamie.

While the mafia team did not play perfectly, they shouldn't have to play perfectly in order to win. If the town had played perfectly they would have definitely won over a perfect mafia. While the mafia definitely had several chances to improve their game, I think the town had more advantages than mafia did, which is normal for role madness. Its just really hard as a GM to predict how all the roles will act and interact, and the more crazy the setup, the more it can swing one way or the other, leading to it probably looking more unbalanced than it really was. If you want my detailed opinion on specifics as to why I think it was unbalanced and how it could be improved, in happy to give that, but the game is over and I had fun, so I'm fine just moving on as well.

[BunnyGo]

I still think we should have no-lynched.

Also Bunny almost had me fooled with his Student claim, but he slipped up and got the role wrong and it all fell apart

I was throwing a hail mary from there. Wouldn't have tried so hard by gambling on learning from xorxes if bozo hadn't been cleared.

[BunnyGo]

Eh, I found the ambiguity of closed setup to be a bit distracting.

Maybe if we had a page of normal roles + modifiers to work from and say "anything in here is legal", but we also have a lot of GMs that like to make new stuff up (including me).

Yes, I agree. It would be better if there was at least some bound on the potential roles...rather than spending too much time speculating on worcej's quite active imagination (e.g. should we have really been worried about the possibility of a scum lightning bolt? I didn't even know the role existed before this game).

A lot of people picked up on that a lot of the roles came from here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Category:Roles

I did make some tweaks on roles for personal flavor, but I will keep this in mind for my next closed setup so that it's less distracting. I will however point out that in the case of LR, it could be either alignment according to that site so it wouldn't have removed that conversation from the game.

I think the drunken student is an awesome role.

[BunnyGo]

I still think we should have no-lynched.

Also Bunny almost had me fooled with his Student claim, but he slipped up and got the role wrong and it all fell apart

I was throwing a hail mary from there. Wouldn't have tried so hard by gambling on learning from xorxes if bozo hadn't been cleared.

It was fun trying to see if I could indirectly convince summit to scan you instead of me. I needed several things to go right that night...like Neph not interfering, me guessing right on Xorxes, summit getting convinced to scan you instead of me, etc. etc. None of them happened and I just laughed.

[kgray]

MVP for town goes to Chaqa, hands down. He used the Neighborhood Watch INCREDIBLY effectively and managed to never recruit a scum. Xorxes was able to use the knowledge of who was in the QT to avoid scanning them, thus getting rdr early.

Chaqa and xorxes definitely did great mechanically, and I’m not taking anything away from them, but I think foodcoats also deserves credit for having the best reads of the game.

GG team! Thanks worcej!

[worcej]

While the mafia team did not play perfectly, they shouldn't have to play perfectly in order to win. If the town had played perfectly they would have definitely won over a perfect mafia. While the mafia definitely had several chances to improve their game, I think the town had more advantages than mafia did, which is normal for role madness. Its just really hard as a GM to predict how all the roles will act and interact, and the more crazy the setup, the more it can swing one way or the other, leading to it probably looking more unbalanced than it really was. If you want my detailed opinion on specifics as to why I think it was unbalanced and how it could be improved, in happy to give that, but the game is over and I had fun, so I'm fine just moving on as well.

I would love to have specific items as to how it was unbalanced - it helps me learn to balance better in the future. Hearing 'we didn't stand a chance' doesn't help me get any better for the future.

[worcej]

MVP for town goes to Chaqa, hands down. He used the Neighborhood Watch INCREDIBLY effectively and managed to never recruit a scum. Xorxes was able to use the knowledge of who was in the QT to avoid scanning them, thus getting rdr early.

Chaqa and xorxes definitely did great mechanically, and I’m not taking anything away from them, but I think foodcoats also deserves credit for having the best reads of the game.

GG team! Thanks worcej!

Very true. Food had it snuffed out before the mechanics came into play and stuck with his reads well.

[Chaqa]

I think the Jail/Lightning Rod interaction was the biggest one.

Lots of town investigative roles.

Maybe Rivera's stuff should have been able to recruit Foodcoats (Jail is kinda protective, I think)

Mafia Hooker too weak. Should have had some other utility role + factional RB.

Maybe an Encryptor or a Mafia JOAT or a Role Thief/Role Cop.