Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Squigs44]

@Squigs@Percy
I thought mafia NK Chippe.
Because Chippe is BA candidate.
So, I thought BA didn't want to NK Chippe.
That narrowed BA candidate.
But you two have different thought.

Why do you think BA NK'd Chippe?
Do you think Mafia knew who is BA before last night NK?
Or, do you think last night NK is for comfirmation BA?

I'm thinking right now that BA held their kill to scan, and mafia killed Chippe.

BA would hold their kill for 2 reasons:
1) To find out who mafia is. If the BA accidentally kills town when he wants to kill mafia, or vice versa, then that could throw off the balance of the game and BA could be in trouble. By scanning, the BA can now know who to kill tonight to set himself up for a win the following night.
2) To throw off the mafia (and to some extent the town). The RB ability from Mafia is a huge pain for the BA. The RB means that someone can be cleared from being BA if a kill goes through, and if the kill doesn't go through, then mafia knows exactly who the BA is. So by holding the kill and scanning, he gives up less info to both town and mafia.

Why did mafia kill Chippe (or at least why didn't they kill Durga or myself)? I had a new thought on this:
Well, maybe the mafia thought the BA would target Durga, or possibly me. While holding the kill has advantages for the BA, using the kill speeds up his road to the final three, and is generally a better play imo. So the mafia were most likely working under the assumption that the BA would kill. Who should the BA kill? Well, the BA really benefits from hitting either the mafia or town last night. Hitting either alignment would tip the balance slightly the other way, but not enough to ruin the BA. So the BA really should be targeting people that are guaranteed not to be the BA - Durga and I - to keep the pool of potential BAs open. Thus, mafia may have thought that the BA would target either Durga or I, and instead of doubling up on a kill, went for Chippe, who was also pretty widely townread.

While I don't really agree with the above reasoning I just gave, it is coherent enough that I could see a mafia team working on this logic.

[Squigs44]

##call GM - I have another fun scenario form you:

The last four players are 2 mafia, 1 SK, 1 town and it is night. At this point mafia have not ensured their success, because they must kill the town and RB the BA to win. The BA has not ensured victory because they are not in the final three, and if mafia try to kill and RB the BA, it goes to a day cycle where he can be lynched.

Now for their actions, lets assume BA and mafia both target the town player (or BA kills town and mafia targets BA). This means that they simultaneously reach their wincons. Mafia has eliminated town and is in majority, but BA makes it to the final three. Who wins?

[worcej]

##call GM - I have another fun scenario form you:

The last four players are 2 mafia, 1 SK, 1 town and it is night. At this point mafia have not ensured their success, because they must kill the town and RB the BA to win. The BA has not ensured victory because they are not in the final three, and if mafia try to kill and RB the BA, it goes to a day cycle where he can be lynched.

Now for their actions, lets assume BA and mafia both target the town player (or BA kills town and mafia targets BA). This means that they simultaneously reach their wincons. Mafia has eliminated town and is in majority, but BA makes it to the final three. Who wins?

GM Note:
As Jamie already noted, I am not here to bounce every situation off of, so please keep that in mind as questions keep coming.

Since this is a good question, I will respond (based off your situation of 0-2-1 EON results) and say I would rule the BA wins because I've stated the BA needs to be in the final 3 as their wincon and they technically reach that first, regardless of mafia being in the majority during the next phase.

[connorcompton]

My current most likely possibility for what happened:

Mafia is Fox and either et or Percy
BA is ND.

And Mafia killed Chippe and rb'ed ND.

I really don't see how it would be likely BA killed Chippe, since all that does is narrows down the BA candidacy. For that reason, it makes perfect sense why Mafia would want to do that.

[Durga]

Et and Percy just don't fit to me. Even Flav fits better than them.

[Durga]

Fox - Connor mafia?

BA - ND?

I remember Fox pretty easily marking Connor in green on his weird list thing and I really didn't like it

[Durga]

Also, the only reason I see scummy damo fake claiming rb is to make his partner look good. I can't think of another reason. He couldn't possibly think he'd get Connor lynched over himself? Agh.

[Foxcastle]

Fox - Connor mafia?

BA - ND?

I remember Fox pretty easily marking Connor in green on his weird list thing and I really didn't like it

That was documenting YOUR read of him.

Balki should get a prize for pocketing you. He’s been dead for a week and you don’t seem to have reconsidered that trash read he pushed on me at all.

[et]

@Squigs@Percy
I thought mafia NK Chippe.
Because Chippe is BA candidate.
So, I thought BA didn't want to NK Chippe.
That narrowed BA candidate.
But you two have different thought.

Why do you think BA NK'd Chippe?
Do you think Mafia knew who is BA before last night NK?
Or, do you think last night NK is for comfirmation BA?

I'm thinking right now that BA held their kill to scan, and mafia killed Chippe.

BA would hold their kill for 2 reasons:
1) To find out who mafia is. If the BA accidentally kills town when he wants to kill mafia, or vice versa, then that could throw off the balance of the game and BA could be in trouble. By scanning, the BA can now know who to kill tonight to set himself up for a win the following night.
2) To throw off the mafia (and to some extent the town). The RB ability from Mafia is a huge pain for the BA. The RB means that someone can be cleared from being BA if a kill goes through, and if the kill doesn't go through, then mafia knows exactly who the BA is. So by holding the kill and scanning, he gives up less info to both town and mafia.

Why did mafia kill Chippe (or at least why didn't they kill Durga or myself)? I had a new thought on this:
Well, maybe the mafia thought the BA would target Durga, or possibly me. While holding the kill has advantages for the BA, using the kill speeds up his road to the final three, and is generally a better play imo. So the mafia were most likely working under the assumption that the BA would kill. Who should the BA kill? Well, the BA really benefits from hitting either the mafia or town last night. Hitting either alignment would tip the balance slightly the other way, but not enough to ruin the BA. So the BA really should be targeting people that are guaranteed not to be the BA - Durga and I - to keep the pool of potential BAs open. Thus, mafia may have thought that the BA would target either Durga or I, and instead of doubling up on a kill, went for Chippe, who was also pretty widely townread.

While I don't really agree with the above reasoning I just gave, it is coherent enough that I could see a mafia team working on this logic.

Thanks. Very persuading.
Then, how about roleblock?
1 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
Mafia ND claimed fake roleblocked
2 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
BA ND claimed fake roleblocked.
3 Mafia roleblocked BA ND.
BA ND claimed roleblocked.
4 Mafia roleblocked BA.
BA didn't claim roleblocked
Mafia ND claimed roleblocked
5 Mafia roleblocked Town ND.
Town ND claimed roleblocked.

I come up with this 5 case.
I think upper is more likely.

[et]

##call GM - I have another fun scenario form you:

The last four players are 2 mafia, 1 SK, 1 town and it is night. At this point mafia have not ensured their success, because they must kill the town and RB the BA to win. The BA has not ensured victory because they are not in the final three, and if mafia try to kill and RB the BA, it goes to a day cycle where he can be lynched.

Now for their actions, lets assume BA and mafia both target the town player (or BA kills town and mafia targets BA). This means that they simultaneously reach their wincons. Mafia has eliminated town and is in majority, but BA makes it to the final three. Who wins?

GM Note:
As Jamie already noted, I am not here to bounce every situation off of, so please keep that in mind as questions keep coming.

Since this is a good question, I will respond (based off your situation of 0-2-1 EON results) and say I would rule the BA wins because I've stated the BA needs to be in the final 3 as their wincon and they technically reach that first, regardless of mafia being in the majority during the next phase.

I come to think draw is possible.

[et]

@Squigs@Percy
I thought mafia NK Chippe.
Because Chippe is BA candidate.
So, I thought BA didn't want to NK Chippe.
That narrowed BA candidate.
But you two have different thought.

Why do you think BA NK'd Chippe?
Do you think Mafia knew who is BA before last night NK?
Or, do you think last night NK is for comfirmation BA?

I'm thinking right now that BA held their kill to scan, and mafia killed Chippe.

BA would hold their kill for 2 reasons:
1) To find out who mafia is. If the BA accidentally kills town when he wants to kill mafia, or vice versa, then that could throw off the balance of the game and BA could be in trouble. By scanning, the BA can now know who to kill tonight to set himself up for a win the following night.
2) To throw off the mafia (and to some extent the town). The RB ability from Mafia is a huge pain for the BA. The RB means that someone can be cleared from being BA if a kill goes through, and if the kill doesn't go through, then mafia knows exactly who the BA is. So by holding the kill and scanning, he gives up less info to both town and mafia.

Why did mafia kill Chippe (or at least why didn't they kill Durga or myself)? I had a new thought on this:
Well, maybe the mafia thought the BA would target Durga, or possibly me. While holding the kill has advantages for the BA, using the kill speeds up his road to the final three, and is generally a better play imo. So the mafia were most likely working under the assumption that the BA would kill. Who should the BA kill? Well, the BA really benefits from hitting either the mafia or town last night. Hitting either alignment would tip the balance slightly the other way, but not enough to ruin the BA. So the BA really should be targeting people that are guaranteed not to be the BA - Durga and I - to keep the pool of potential BAs open. Thus, mafia may have thought that the BA would target either Durga or I, and instead of doubling up on a kill, went for Chippe, who was also pretty widely townread.

While I don't really agree with the above reasoning I just gave, it is coherent enough that I could see a mafia team working on this logic.

Thanks. Very persuading.
Then, how about roleblock?
1 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
Mafia ND claimed fake roleblocked
2 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
BA ND claimed fake roleblocked.
3 Mafia roleblocked BA ND.
BA ND claimed roleblocked.
4 Mafia roleblocked BA.
BA didn't claim roleblocked
Mafia ND claimed roleblocked
5 Mafia roleblocked Town ND.
Town ND claimed roleblocked.

I come up with this 5 case.
I think upper is more likely.

I want to correct order.

1 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
Mafia ND claimed fake roleblocked

2 Mafia roleblocked BA ND.
BA ND claimed roleblocked.

3 Mafia roleblocked BA.
BA didn't claim roleblocked
Mafia ND claimed roleblocked

4 Mafia roleblocked Town ND.
Town ND claimed roleblocked.

5 Mafia didn't roleblock anyone.
BA ND claimed fake roleblocked.

[Durga]

Fox - Connor mafia?

BA - ND?

I remember Fox pretty easily marking Connor in green on his weird list thing and I really didn't like it

That was documenting YOUR read of him.

Balki should get a prize for pocketing you. He’s been dead for a week and you don’t seem to have reconsidered that trash read he pushed on me at all.

Can you explain the trash read he pushed against you then? I've seen no instance from you that reads town to me.

[Durga]

I can assure you that my memory is not good enough to remember anything Balki said about you. But instead of throwing shade why don't you just try to convince me otherwise

[Foxcastle]

I can assure you that my memory is not good enough to remember anything Balki said about you. But instead of throwing shade why don't you just try to convince me otherwise

Have you just given up? It's not shade when it's true.

If I'm your top scumread, then town will follow you to our doom. I don't know what would change your mind. I pushed back against the Balki Special (i.e., "Foxcastle's play is vague and non-commital, present with being engaged, blah blah blah") since he started pushing it and you echoed him. But it's hard to push back against a phantom read constructed of smoke and balkifart.

I have been here. I have not been playing cautiously. I got in a slump around D3, but came back to defend myself since the Teacon matchup.

The spreadsheet was kinda dumb, but it was based on POE that I made an effort to find. (And no, you can't solve the game like that, but it called Damo and Peter! And Teacon was in the not-scum end of the rankings, so that was right, too. But I'll resurrect it if Connor is also scum, since he was number 2 (you can see on p. 265) but I excluded him and Damo because of the RB situation.) It's all WIFOM of course, because I didn't explain what in particular made me exclude certain pairs of people. (If I were scum willing to do that kind of project, you'd think I'd have done that.)

I have not been playing like scum trying to mislead town before my inevitable lynch. I have been playing like town trying to solve SOMETHING before my inevitable mislynch.

On D4, it was not actually fatal to mislynch me. Unfortunately, today it is.

[Foxcastle]

##call GM - I have another fun scenario form you:

The last four players are 2 mafia, 1 SK, 1 town and it is night. At this point mafia have not ensured their success, because they must kill the town and RB the BA to win. The BA has not ensured victory because they are not in the final three, and if mafia try to kill and RB the BA, it goes to a day cycle where he can be lynched.

Now for their actions, lets assume BA and mafia both target the town player (or BA kills town and mafia targets BA). This means that they simultaneously reach their wincons. Mafia has eliminated town and is in majority, but BA makes it to the final three. Who wins?

GM Note:
As Jamie already noted, I am not here to bounce every situation off of, so please keep that in mind as questions keep coming.

Since this is a good question, I will respond (based off your situation of 0-2-1 EON results) and say I would rule the BA wins because I've stated the BA needs to be in the final 3 as their wincon and they technically reach that first, regardless of mafia being in the majority during the next phase.

I come to think draw is possible.

The GMs already said that a draw is not possible in this setup.

[et]

GM Note:
As Jamie already noted, I am not here to bounce every situation off of, so please keep that in mind as questions keep coming.

Since this is a good question, I will respond (based off your situation of 0-2-1 EON results) and say I would rule the BA wins because I've stated the BA needs to be in the final 3 as their wincon and they technically reach that first, regardless of mafia being in the majority during the next phase.

I come to think draw is possible.

The GMs already said that a draw is not possible in this setup.

I thought that means draw is not possible in the situation I posted.
I come to think draw is possible in other situation.

[ND]

I won't be around much today. Visiting a museum and talking with a buddy of mine who is an archivist. My thoughts haven't changed towards Fox.

[Foxcastle]

I come to think draw is possible.

The GMs already said that a draw is not possible in this setup.

I thought that means draw is not possible in the situation I posted.
I come to think draw is possible in other situation.

There's no draw, under any situation.

[et]

The GMs already said that a draw is not possible in this setup.

I thought that means draw is not possible in the situation I posted.
I come to think draw is possible in other situation.

There's no draw, under any situation.

OK. I realised.

[et]

Anyway, I think Fox is maybe town by elimination method.
So, I don't hope lynch Fox.
@Fox You think ND is BA. That is OK.
Then, who do you think Mafia combination?

For example, now I think that.
1. BA Flav Mafia ND- Connor
2. BA Flav Mafia ND-Percy
1 is most likely. 2 is second.
And many person says ND is BA.
So I will think about case of ND is BA.