The Scandinavian Switch, A German-Russian Temporary Alliance

[KINGIVANOV]

Hello, I’m a fairly new (and pretty terrible) diplomacy player, I came from play diplomacy.com, but I found that I like the user interface here better.

Anyway, I came up with an interesting opening, that may or may not be new, but seemed to backfire on me in both times I tried to use it.

The Scandinavian Switch:
Russia and Germany agree to DMZ Silesia, Prussia, and Baltic Sea
Russia captures Sweden in Fall 1901 with no German interference. Then Germany supports Sweden to Norway in Fall 1902 while simultaneously moving into Sweden.

Unfortunately, both of my implementations, (one playing as Russia, one as Germany) failed, with the opposite power violating the DMZ and then proceeding to attack.

Here are the games:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel (as Russia)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel (as Germany)

Can you tel me what went wrong?

[Claesar]

I think the general premise is good. I've done it before with good results, but it often creates a lot of tension. There are some moments where the potential for a stab is high.

What went wrong is that in both games you were stabbed by the person you tried this switch with. That may seem obvious, but it also has implications that reach further. It would be best to ask those players after the game.

Without seeing the press, my best guess is that the problem was that you upset them in some way. Or they liked their other ally more.

In your Germany game, it could've been the fleet build in Berlin. That's typically anti-Russian. I presume you did that to confuse England, but was Russia truly okay with it?

[Crazy Anglican]

Also aren't we not supposed to talk about on-going games and/or violating anonymity on the forum?

[Pieyoko]

While I don't want to discuss ongoing games and I am relatively new myself, I think something to look at when attempting this stab with Russia or Germany (and always) is the ability of the enemy to stab and the reward they get from staying with you VS taking your centers

The big problem here is that, if Norway is taken by Britain the other player (Germany if you're Russia and vice versa) always gains more by a stab

Not only can they gain an ally in Britain if they play their diplomacy right, if they move on your home centers right away with Silesia and Prussia, they have a very powerful attack that is near unstoppable if you're engaged anywhere else on the board

Specifically in the game you played Germany, it looks as if a DMZ has been set up in the Black Sea in 1901, and both France and Britain open very pro each other

Your quick blitz into France left your back open, which wouldn't have been a massive deficit with 3 builds, however a fleet in Berlin left it impossible to defend if you continued west with any of your new units, I think this build in general may've given Russia the impression that you were hostile, it's hard to ever make that build without giving that vibe

Mainly you trusted Russia wayyy too much, especially since you were planning to stab, even if your plan in Scandanavia worked, your commitment towards attacking France left you with no followup

Back to general critiques of the strategy rather than game analysis, I think this has potential to work, and I'd try it in more games, but only if you can also get Russia to DMZ Livonia and Warsaw as Germany, and preparing for a possible stab as either side, never trust someone you're using too much

Hope some of that was helpful! Again just my thoughts, still kinda inexperienced but I really like this idea!

[Claesar]

Also aren't we not supposed to talk about on-going games and/or violating anonymity on the forum?

That's a common misconception. We're not allowed to discuss ongoing Gunboats under any circumstance.

It's typically considered bad form to start publically discussing a press game you're not in, but there's no rule against it.
You're allowed to reveal (or lie about) your identity in anonymous press games. Only certain tournaments (such as the ODC) have a specific rule against this.

[Crazy Anglican]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I thought as I was hitting submit (Hey Claesar is a mod. If there was any problem he’d have said something.)