Smallest Turtling Position

[BunnyGo]

I seem to recall that Turkey can turtle with only 7 centers, but I was unable to construct it. Does anybody know what the smallest number of centers needed to hold a position is?

Thanks, looking forward to this. I haven't had diplomacy forums since the diplomacy.ca site (I took a hiatus of a decade between playing)

[mhsmith0]

England (or France or Germany or Russia) can hold against a southern power or alliance with just three units. MAO, Portugal, one of ENG/IRI/NAO. 100% impossible to crack that without a ship already north of MAO or capability to build one. You can tack on Scandinavia for just three units more (den, STP, something to support hold STP)

[BunnyGo]

Very cute. I just played a gunboat game where the Scandinavia part came into play (F/G holding off T).

[bartogian]

The smallest southern stalemate position is U SPA, U POR S SPA, F WES S SPA, U NAF, U CON, U SMY, holding the 6 centres CON, BUL, ANK, TUN, SPA and POR, against an EG alliance that has no fleets in the Mediterranean.

[mhsmith0]

I think on the east side it’s actually unit con/arm holding con/smy/ank?
The units proposed can’t hold Bulgaria, and if an enemy army gets into arm, then I don’t think any of the Turkish centers can be held. I guess you could say a smy comstantly bouncing arm, but just u arm is simpler (also f smy in particular can’t hold arm and just gets bypassed by a sev-arm)

[BunnyGo]

I think on the east side it’s actually unit con/arm holding con/smy/ank?
The units proposed can’t hold Bulgaria, and if an enemy army gets into arm, then I don’t think any of the Turkish centers can be held. I guess you could say a smy comstantly bouncing arm, but just u arm is simpler (also f smy in particular can’t hold arm and just gets bypassed by a sev-arm)

Can't the black sea break through this? Or a convoy to Syria?

[mhsmith0]

Well the presumption is no hostile southern navies, something like turkey or Austria defending against an England-Germany alliance.

[bartogian]

Yes it should be ARM instead of SMY. Bad typo on my part.

I think on the east side it’s actually unit con/arm holding con/smy/ank?
The units proposed can’t hold Bulgaria, and if an enemy army gets into arm, then I don’t think any of the Turkish centers can be held. I guess you could say a smy comstantly bouncing arm, but just u arm is simpler (also f smy in particular can’t hold arm and just gets bypassed by a sev-arm)

[Carl Tuckerson]

The two smallest that I can actually remember seeing in a real game are as follows, both involving one power holding off a dedicated 2-way draw alliance. U denotes that an army or fleet is fine.

NORTH:
Control London, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, St. Petersburg, Portugal. You are probably England, but you could be anyone, in theory; the important thing is that at most one of England, France, or Germany is alive (and that one is you), and that any fleets besides yours are confined to the Mediterranean.
F Portugal S F Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F North Atlantic Ocean S F Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean H
U Denmark H
U Norway S U St. Petersburg
U St. Petersburg H
This position controls eight centers with six units.

SOUTH:
Control Portugal, Spain, Tunis, Venice, Rome, Naples, Constantinople, Smyrna, Ankara. You are probably Turkey, but you could be anyone, in theory; the important thing is that at most one of Turkey, Italy, Austria, or France is alive (and that one is you), and that any fleets besides yours are confined to the Atlantic.
U Portugal S U Spain
F Western Mediterranean S U Spain
U Spain H
U North Africa H
A Tuscany S U Venice
U Apulia S U Venice
U Venice H
U Constantinople H
U Armenia H

There are theoretical positions that are smaller than these positions, but these are the smallest ones you will realistically encounter in a game. They occur, respectively, when England has conquered Scandinavia and Portugal but otherwise an alliance of two Eastern powers (most likely Austria and one of Turkey or Italy) has overrun the rest of the Continent, or when Turkey has conquered Italy and reached Iberia but otherwise an alliance of two Western powers (almost certainly England and Germany) has overrun the rest of the Continent.