ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

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Brumark
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#61 Post by Brumark » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:53 pm

swordsman3003 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:53 pm
I would have stabbed on principle. Also, solo wins will be used as tiebreakers.
My general principle would be that I stab if it will help achieve my best possible outcome in a game.

I thought the tiebreaker element as low enough chance that I am equal 7th with someone going into the top board as to be discounted from my thinking. Therefore the best possible result I could achieve was qualification and the 17-17 did that. Perhaps like soloing with more than 18 centres, nice to have but little real impact.

VillageIdiot
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#62 Post by VillageIdiot » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:55 pm

I think there’s a luxury to be had here where visitors don’t have to concern themselves with the side implications of these games being ranked. The home team takes a collateral hit when they gift a draw that they could have soloed in that it would have improved their site rankings while a guest can enjoy the cost free benefits of having a carebear reputation and stacking the deck in the coming rounds with somebody they both know they can work with and somebody they can beat.

It’s not a bad strategic approach. I recall first year of ODC Octavious did something similar and it certainly didn’t hurt having that reputation of being somebody to ‘sacrifice for loyalty’ in the finals where anonymity faded pretty quickly.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=158084

He went on to win the whole tournament.

VillageIdiot
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#63 Post by VillageIdiot » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:58 pm

Food for thought.

Durga
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#64 Post by Durga » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:27 pm

It's anon and you're not supposed to talk about who you are in future games so there shouldn't be collusion like this
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goldfinger0303
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#65 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:06 am

Well teccles, the benefits of German cooperation would've been one less SC for you or Turkey in autumn 1909. A no build Turkey would've been massive.

As for France, i was trying to get him to force disband Gascony in spring 1910. Either by taking it himself or supporting me there (I forget which). With just two english armies and turkey fighting to the East, changing the stalemate line so that I have control of Spain and Marseilles makes his position in Paris and Brest that much more valuable. Because it greatly increases the pressure on Munich, and changes the stalemate line from your traditional StP-Tunis to the Moscow-Warsaw line. Turkey needs many more armies to hold that one, which would require him to poach centers off of you (to prevent disbands) and prevent you from building.

For France, I think, that was safer than the position he ultimately ended up in with Marseilles. Especially due to Turkey's nature of not recognizing imminent threats and blindly attacking me after I told him my draw was up and was done.

goldfinger0303
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#66 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:07 am

It's anon and you're not supposed to talk about who you are in future games so there shouldn't be collusion like this
That's never stopped anyone in any tournament from breaking identities. Or at least having solid guesses.

Durga
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#67 Post by Durga » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:06 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:07 am
It's anon and you're not supposed to talk about who you are in future games so there shouldn't be collusion like this
That's never stopped anyone in any tournament from breaking identities. Or at least having solid guesses.
Well if I find out then they get kicked out
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VillageIdiot
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#68 Post by VillageIdiot » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:01 am

Even if it’s not talked about, people will still know who everybody is by year 3 of the finals. Top players often are pretty easily recognizable, especially when you know they’re one of seven people.
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Durga
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#69 Post by Durga » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:29 am

VillageIdiot wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:01 am
Even if it’s not talked about, people will still know who everybody is by year 3 of the finals. Top players often are pretty easily recognizable, especially when you know they’re one of seven people.
Great, and top players aren't going to buy bullshit about 17/17 two ways (I hope)
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VillageIdiot
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#70 Post by VillageIdiot » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:12 am

It’s easy to say that, but when you’re deciding on which shark to take a chance in siding with the cutthroat guy who played every dirty trick on the way to the finals definitely gets more scrutiny over the guy who of course will betray me as well, but potentially not quite as early as he seems like an “alliance kinda guy”.

Durga
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Re: ODC 2019 Tournament Discussion (finished games only)

#71 Post by Durga » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:38 pm

VillageIdiot wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:12 am
It’s easy to say that, but when you’re deciding on which shark to take a chance in siding with the cutthroat guy who played every dirty trick on the way to the finals definitely gets more scrutiny over the guy who of course will betray me as well, but potentially not quite as early as he seems like an “alliance kinda guy”.
This is not a thing that can ever be solved because no matter what the system or the points or anything, there will always be some person who likes doing a two way. I've seen them everywhere.

And diplomacy is fundamentally a game where your actions have long term consequences. I don't think carebears generally do well, and I expect top board players to all be smart about it. But I can't control how people choose to play their game, and the system I've picked does not incentivize carebear play any more than another system.
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