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Finished: 03 PM Sun 12 Jun 11 UTC
Sippery When Wet-1
1 day /phase
Pot: 128 D - Autumn, 1911, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
12 May 11 UTC Spring, 1901: Greetings everyone!
13 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1901: Fun first moves. This should prove to be a good game.
31 May 11 UTC Spring, 1906: Hello guys. This is new government of England. I will try to make this game more interesting since playing when somebody left is not fun :-)
04 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1907: Agh, the NMRs are driving me crazy!
08 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: For the record, while not attacking Italy in 1908 was a straight up strategic error that probably cost me the solo, War-Gal last year was a misorder, not a tactical blunder. :)
08 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: I know :-). You are a good player, I have noticed that a bit too late.
09 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1910: Ok, I'm done. Good game everyone. England, why'd you unset draw? Time to stab Italy?
09 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1910: :-) I have told you that if you will continue game in spring moves I will cancel draw.
09 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1910: Ball's in your court, England. You really think Italy's going to stick with you long enough to snag a solo of your own? We'll be here a long time if that's what you're after. Let's put this game out of our misery.
09 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1910: Well you had your chance, let me try mine. If you will manage to establish a stalemate line I will draw. Fair enough?
09 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1911: Wait what is going on?
09 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1911: England's going for a solo now.
09 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1911: Italy, please support Munich from Tyrolia.

Or don't. Either way, any disbands I need to do will come from my southern fleets. So the game will end with either an Italian backdoor solo, or when England sets draw.
09 Jun 11 UTC I'm sorry I didn't see this until I came back for the day.
09 Jun 11 UTC Anyone want a draw?
10 Jun 11 UTC If my ally wants to draw, we will draw. My word. bt, you are lucky after all :-)
Shall we postpone a draw just to have a space for final thoughts?
10 Jun 11 UTC Call me overly cautious, bit I'd prefer to save my EOG for after the draw's final. :) We can still post global press here after the game ends, we just have to find the game in our completed games list.
10 Jun 11 UTC Dude let's just draw forealz.
11 Jun 11 UTC So, EOG. I got off to a great start in this game -- Russia's mis-order when he tried to stab me showed me his intentions, without doing any damage. He backed off of the stab, and then a year later I had a perfect opportunity to stab him myself, and then followed up in the press to put him on a full tilt. That worked great for me; I was the largest power at that point, so I would have been a global target, but since everyone could see that I was tied up with Russia in the corner, I didn't look so threatening. Meanwhile, Russia's moves became fairly predictable because he was so angry at me, and I could count on him exposing his backside and letting other powers soften him up for me. It ended up slowing me down a bit, but I knew I'd end up on top in the end.

But then Austria and Germany both went into CD, which threw a wrench in my plans. I ended up taking advantage of Austria's CDs -- I was working an alliance with him in the press, but then twice when he went CD I was watching the clock and grabbed centers from him at the last minute when he still didn't have orders in. To be honest, I'd have preferred to have him as an ally initially, but once he showed himself to not be committed to actually, you know, showing up to play, I was just happy to get him out of the way.

Germany's CD hurt more; I was hoping to have Germany snag St. Petersburg and more of France, to keep England and Italy in check. But his CDs pretty much sealed the deal on the end game being between me, England and Italy.

Once we hit the endgame, I made 3 terrible mistakes:
1) I really should have stabbed Italy in S1908. That was a golden opportunity missed.
2) WAR-GAL in F1908 was a misorder -- I meant WAR-PRU. That left a nasty gap in my northern defense.
3) Having made those mistakes, crossing the neutral zone and pressing on for a try at a solo was just plain stupid. I should have accepted my errors and taken the draw when it was offered.

In the last season, England says I was lucky to have still gotten the 3-way draw. I don't think it was quite so much luck. With the amount of press I sent Italy in that last season, trying to convince him of England's true intentions, I think I earned my seat in that draw.

As always, tactics in this game are secondary to press. My diplomacy with Russia at the start, Austria in the mid-game, and Italy at the end were all crucial to my result.
11 Jun 11 UTC Thx, btcarcass for your view. I always try to grab an opportunity to learn. Maybe because I'm not a native English speaker sometimes I feel that my "diplomacy" part is not so good as it would be in my mother language.

I had time only until 24th so I was able to joint a game from beginning but I looked for a game where I could jump in. This one was not my first choice - England was not actually dead, but the situation on the west was somehow confused while there was a sense of strong cooperation between Italy and Turkey. Specially Turkey was in strong position, clearly good candidate for solo while Italy was a good candidate for a stab.

From initial conversation it was clear that Germany doesn't communicate well so I proposed to France a move which secured me one SC while France lost one but gain two. But it became obvious that France lacks skill so I decided to go rather with Italy or Turkey then him.

When Turkey refused to let me enter Mun and Ber it was clear that he will try solo. It was a surprise for me that I have underestimated him (you) - that doesn't happen to me a lot. So I have tried harder to make a good relation with Italy. Soon I have realized that Italy is one of those players which won't stab so I felt pretty secure.
I have tried to manipulate Turkey in a three way draw before gambling moves around Mun and Ber. I knew that after those moves Turkey will solo or we will be able to push back. In both cases there was no sense to keep draw offering alive after spring moves.
Turkey left us a little hole and we made two very good combination and the result was me and Italy ended in the winning position. I don't stab allies as Italy and really wanted to go for two way draw. Of course I would control the game and prevent Italy from solo. But it was clear that Italy is at the end with nerves. I could again take a chance with Turkey against him, but that would be against my ethics (and against my brain since Turkey clearly showed that solo is his prime target). I could press for continuation of the game, but I decided to respect Italy's wish.

Ion->Alb, Tyr ->Vie and Ven->Tri (supported by Adr) or
Tyr->Boh, Baltic->Pru and Be->Sil (supported by Mun)
there was no stalemate line. btcarcass you are right, this was mostly the game of press, except two good turns where Italy and me stayed alive.

Congrats to both of you, the part of the game I was in was good and interesting. Hope to meet you again.
11 Jun 11 UTC You can learn. But you don't need to :-).
12 Jun 11 UTC Real classy, Italy. Like Kamen says, some of us enjoy the opportunity to talk about the game after it's done. You're not required to participate if you don't want to.

Kamen, I stand by what I wrote in my final private press to you. Doubly so. :)

You actually misread the situation when you came into the game -- the map sure made it look like I had a strong relationship with Italy, but in fact, we were hardly talking. I kept trying to start up a conversation with him, but it wasn't going anywhere. We were both so busy with our other fronts, that the fact that we weren't talking wasn't a problem. We didn't really start collaborating significantly until right around when you joined, when my fleets showed up. My failure to stab wasn't any kind of long term loyalty, just that I misjudged when my best chance was going to be -- I thought I'd have a better shot if I waited a year to get more of my fleets into position, but I was wrong there.

Once we reached the last year, yeah, I knew I didn't have a perfect line against you, but I was fairly confident that Italy wasn't a skillful enough player to see that. The crux of my press war in the final year was trying to convince him that I couldn't be eliminated fast, and that the most likely result if you and he tried to do it would be you eventually stabbing him for a solo.

Once you pushed me back out of Germany, I really genuinely would have gone for the 2-way with you -- you'd proven to me by then that you were good enough tactically to not give me another shot at a solo. But, I can certainly understand why you weren't willing to try.

Good game, thanks!

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

btcarcass (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 43 D
13 supply-centers, 12 units
Kamen (1935 D (S))
Drawn. Bet: 23 D, won: 43 D
12 supply-centers, 11 units
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 43 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
phenix (186 D)
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
canttouchthis (173 D)
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
Infadel! (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
Civil Disorders
rosem1 (1173 D)England (Spring, 1906) with 6 centres.
canttouchthis (173 D)Russia (Spring, 1907) with 2 centres.
Infadel! (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1906) with 0 centres.
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