Finished: 12 PM Tue 30 Jun 20 UTC
Private 7 more pints of middle and some nuts
1 day /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1905, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
2 excused missed turn
Game drawn
19 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: I think the delays don't replenish if a player is replaced, so 24 hrs sounds more like it - unless, of course, the mods added any delays.
19 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Ok. Great.

Wish I'd have known it would process as a German hold though...! Nevermind. At least we're moving again.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: GameMaster: Minister of Silly Walks was banned: multi/meta. The time until the next phase has been extended by one phase length to give an opportunity to replace the player.
Remember to finalize your orders if you don't want to wait, so the game isn't held up unnecessarily!
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Sooo... Now we've lost Russia?

Italy, has anybody else approached from the forum?
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Oh was that Russia that got banned? Agh that's unfortunate.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Why was MoSW banned?
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: The reason is usually not revealed by the mods, but a common issue is multiple accounts used by the same person.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Must be serious as to invoke an immediate ban obviously affects other players.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Thanks for the info.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Multi/meta is explained in the rules for the site. It's either having multiple accounts, or communicating with another player about a public game outside of the game.

He was new to the site and involved in a lot of games so presumably got caught.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: There doesn't seem to be any issinuation it was happening in our game or else I'd imagine 2 players would be banned.
21 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1903: Yeah as far as I can tell that wasn't happening in our game. I'm new to the site and definitely didn't know this player and I think I was Russia's only clear ally.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Have we got a new Russia lined up at all?
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: I asked the person who wanted to take over Germany to join as Russia but no response so far.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Hello there everyone. I've just taken over Russia. I haven't taken the time yet to read the past private messages between previous Russia and you all, but I'll try to get a sense of what was going on, and I'll do my best to make it as if previous Russia never left.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Welcome!
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Thank you :)

I realize now that "to make it as if previous Russia never left" might not be as simple as I thought. There are only 5 hours left in the phase, so some of you may have already put in orders in the assumption that Russia is in civil disorder, and depending on your timezone might not check in again before the end of the phase.

It's also unclear to me what's going on with Germany. There is talk in here in global chat of a replacement for Germany, perhaps even a replacement of a replacement. They've clearly been in civil disorder, but those disbands the last turn are not the ones that would happen from a civil disorder I think (it would disband the units farthest from home). So are those disbands intentional? There hasn't been any chat between previous Russia and Germany since Spring 1903. Is someone currently playing Germany?
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: We think the original Germany came back without any real intention to play. Maybe not realising they were coming back.

I can only assume that the disbands and empty centres are an attempt at an easy way to leave the game?

There has been one other missed turn I think, at the very start, but I'm not sure who.

I presume Russia has 2 missed turns available still so you could just not enter orders and let it tick over for 24 hours.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: I also didn't hear from Germany since spring 03, and if it makes any difference I have entered orders on the assumption there would be a Russian player in place.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: I also believe Germany has entered orders this turn as it said all countries had entered orders before you joined.
22 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Ok, that makes sense, regarding Germany.

It does say that I have 2 delays left. I will use one of those to delay the game by 24 hours. That seems most fair to me. After that, let's hope for no more delays or dropped/banned players.
23 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
23 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Awesome thank you Russia for joining the game. Will check press now.
24 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: If Germany/Austria could ready orders so we get a phase end that isn't 3.50 am, that would be just dandy.
24 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: Just letting you all know, I might be out of signal range for the next couple days; if I miss orders it's because of that. I'll use my excused turns if needed but I can definitely submit orders on Friday so it should be fine.
25 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
25 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1904: So, we've lost Germany again.

Shall we find another? Or just let the game do what it will do? I think between a few of us he'll be overrun this turn regardless.
25 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: I'm dead now
25 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: I say we get this over with. The German position is ruined and I expect few people are willing to take over.
25 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: LIVERPOOL ARE CHAMPIONS! PLEASE HAVE A BEER OR ANOTHER DRINK OF YOUR CHOICE - IT'S ON ME!
25 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: Oh no not you as well.
25 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: In other news... Germany is back :shrug:
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I agree with Italy: let's get this over with. With Austria and Germany now dead, it's a 5-way draw. With further progress in either the North or the South looking like it would be pretty slow at best, playing it out to a 4-way draw would take ages. Do we want the game to drag on for that long?

I've put in my vote for a draw.
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I believe Italy meant get it over with in terms of not looking for another Germany.
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I am happy with a five-way draw if that's what the rest of the board wants.
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I don't understand why we would draw on 1905 with no stalemate?

Is that a common outcome for a game of diplomacy ones it seems "sides" are set?

Or is this Russia thinking a drawnis a better results than a defeat?

Surely there's still plenty of reason to play on but equally I don't want to play a game with people that don't want to play, so if everybody wants a draw I'll put my vote in.
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I'll be honest, this is mostly about the South because in the North once you have Sweden all your fleets are useless against me so there's no way you can defeat me. In the South, the only power that can realistically be defeated is Italy, and I have no desire to see Italy dead. Do you?
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: There are more possible outcomes besides a solo win or 5 way draw.
27 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1905: And it isn't always about the result anyway.
30 Jun 20 UTC I wouldn't pretend it isn't slightly disappointing this hasn't gone any further.
30 Jun 20 UTC Oh, wow, you did agree with the draw all of a sudden. That's unexpected.

Now that the game is over, I can admit that when I proposed the draw, I was indeed afraid of being defeated. It would've taken a long time, like 10+ in-game years, but if the 3 of you kept working together, first taking Sweden, then the Baltic Sea / Gulf of Bothnia, then the coastal territories, etc, it felt inevitable. You guys have 20 combined centers, me and Turkey have 14.

And even if we got some kind of stalemate, I was also afraid that England would go to Turkey and ask "well how about instead of a 5-way draw we make it a 4-way draw and cut out Russia?" A backstab by Turkey would've been devastating. Unlike the big DMZ that England and France have, Turkey can just walk into 2 of my centers. Our next attack was Vienna to Bohemia, so if that worked, I would've had 3 open centers for Turkey to walk into.

So that's why I pushed so hard for the draw. No real chances of me making progress, only risks of me going backwards or straight-up dying.

That being said, now that the game actually is drawn, I'm also a bit sad to not see how our defense would play out. Despite being in this position where a draw was the best possible outcome, I was still having fun, so while pushing for the draw was strategically the best move, maybe I still shouldn't have done it. You're right England, it's not always about the result. I'm sorry.

Well, what's done is done. Good game everyone! Especially well played England.
30 Jun 20 UTC Let's get the mods to undo the draw :D
30 Jun 20 UTC Yeah I really did not expect a draw from England here. I assumed a stab against France was inevitable in your position. I never intended to actually draw but only use that as a signal that I wasn’t stabbing Russia or Italy.

However, had England stabbed France I would have immediately removed my draw vote and stabbed Russia.
30 Jun 20 UTC GG everyone
30 Jun 20 UTC Honestly, I saw stalemate coming. Unless I stabbed France, or Turkey stabbed Russia, we'd just be spending ages with nothing happening.

Yes, it isn't necessarily about the end result as much as it is about having fun getting there, but it may not have been fun for much longer.

Obviously it isn't possible to undo the draw - we all now know too much - but I'd happily play a rematch.
30 Jun 20 UTC Hello all. Very interesting game and I thank the powers that be that I got out with a few centres. I am glad to see some padawans almost reducing me to rubble, which means that I still have a lot to learn. Thanks to Migi for stepping in and thanks to all for playing.
01 Jul 20 UTC Would anybody be interested if I set up a rematch? If we don't fill it, we can look to the forum.

If so, do people prefer anonymous, and is 1-day turns ok for everybody?
01 Jul 20 UTC Sure! I do not have a preference for anonymity or turn length. Be aware that I will be offline for the most part between July 25 and August 4.
01 Jul 20 UTC https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=308680

Here we go then. I'll put the password in private messages. If we get 4+ joiners by Friday we can turn to the forum for the rest, or I'm happy if you know other players you'd like to invite.

GJ, we can always pause whilst your away if we're still going.
01 Jul 20 UTC I have a number of games going right now so I'll sit out of this one. Thanks for setting it up nonetheless.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
Simonv121 (113 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 7 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
France
Kaysing (104 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 7 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Turkey
AnimalsCS (70 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 7 D
7 supply-centers, 6 units
Russia
Migi (322 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 7 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Italy
gjdip (634 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 7 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Germany
CornishTitan (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Austria
DutyRo (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
Minister of Silly Walks (0 D X)Russia (Autumn, 1903) with 6 centres.
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