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Finished: 07 AM Wed 20 May 20 UTC
1 day /phase
Pot: 25 D - Autumn, 13, Finished
The Ancient Mediterranean, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Chumbles (904 D (S))
29 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 5: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
19 May 20 UTC How unsportsmanlike of you Ravintsara - giving the game away on purpose. Horrible play.
19 May 20 UTC What did you do to keep him from winning? He didn't want to share the victory with you or with me. And yet you attacked me at the same time as him. Did you think you were winning? Or did you know you were just helping him?
19 May 20 UTC Dude, you moved your armies out of his way, then decommissioned remaining units. He simply walked in.

I expected a 3 way draw. You could have held him/worst case slowed him down. But you didn't even try. Sad play.
19 May 20 UTC The last 6 SCs he took were all from you. He never took one of mine.
19 May 20 UTC A draw ? No, I don't believe it. How you wanted me to slow it down ... you attacked me too! If you wanted me to resist, you had to let me defend myself. You only helped him. His victory is thanks to you too.
19 May 20 UTC By attacking me, you could have won one or two centers. But you were just helping him take more.
The draw, he could have accepted for a long time, if he had wanted. But I think you were deluding yourself.
19 May 20 UTC Spring 11' army phazania moves to Sahara, why not cirta or bounce in numidia with fleet gulf of tacape? which, btw moves to Punic sea. In this turn, Egypt has yet to move against me. But after this turn, a win for Egypt becomes obviously possible. Your moves looked like a misorders. But as we shall see, your fall 11 orders are mover of the same.
19 May 20 UTC Do not call me a bad player, when you are also at fault for his victory. I know that it is wrong to give centers, it is not at all in my way of doing things. It’s even the first time I’ve done it.
I wanted you to understand that your logic is bad.
19 May 20 UTC Fall orders, I reposition and everything holds. Egypt still not moving against me. Sahara moves to Mauretania and Punic to Sicilia? Why? Why not Cirta and Thapsus? What is gulf of Sirtis doing? nothing. Then you go an destroy the two units who can hold back the yellow horde. Come on man! that's bullshit play.
19 May 20 UTC Whether I defend myself or not against Egypt, anyway, I would lose since you are two against me. You have chosen to support him in his fight. In the long run, he would have had his solo with your help.
19 May 20 UTC No need to describe all my orders. Yes, I voluntarily donated my centers. Why fight. You decided to help him win, right?
19 May 20 UTC In Spring 12, I move east to counter yellow. You're still sitting and holding the line. Too late anyway as there's no units to hold Cirta and Thapsus. Sicilia sits and holds Aussonian? Why?

I feel like you deliberately threw the game to Egypt. No offense Chumbles, but that's got to be the easiest win: Lepsis, Numidia, Cirta, Thapsus, Cartage, and Saguntum without any blue in your way.
19 May 20 UTC Nope, I tried to hold the line for the draw.
19 May 20 UTC I no longer wanted to fight anyway. I hadn't wanted to betray Egypt when I could, but I couldn't move on. And when I saw you, quickly quickly quickly, attacking me behind him, I thought it sucked. You chose to help him, whether you wanted to or not and I had to be the pigeon who was to give you the answer for your pleasure. If you wanted me to defend myself, you shouldn't attack me. And sorry for my bad english, it's not my language.
19 May 20 UTC "Nope, I tried to hold the line for the draw" : I saw you attack me when Egypt turned against me. You occupied my troops and I could not defend myself against him. You had to stay neutral if you were afraid to attack him.
19 May 20 UTC When you defended yourself against him, I did not take the opportunity to attack you.
19 May 20 UTC I would agree, super un-impressed with the poor sportsmanship here - Ravintsara and Chumbles were clearly working together to begin with, despite messaging being banned, then on obvious thrown game from there. ridiculous - hope I'm never in another game with you too.

GG czechveck
19 May 20 UTC "despite messaging being banned." -> There was no message. Simply an order placed in the first year. No need for more. But if you think we have cheated, you can point us out in moderation.
19 May 20 UTC CondiRice: I took advantage of the situation. Your unsubstantiated accusation of collusion is disgusting, unwarranted and breaches the house rules. Withdraw it or I will escalate your bad behaviour to the attention of the mods.

For the record, I have had no contact whatsoever with Ravintsara before or during the game. I've never cheated in 70 years and would get no satisfaction from so doing; neither can I see how such collusion could have been orchestrated
20 May 20 UTC I've already asked the mods to look into it (not Condi's accusation, but Ravintsara's play). Chumbles, you may be a lucky man, and truly innocent (a bystander). But the optics look shitty. Ravintsara played this one poorly. A draw was there, but he didn't play for it and actively gave the game away. I can't say you two were working together - a bridge too far if you get the reference (condi jumped the shark in modern parlance). But it sure leaves a bad taste to the win, don't it (if it don't, it should)?

I play for fun, I don't really care about points or stats. But sportsmanship, well, that matters a lot to me. Internet, anonymous, I don't care. Unfair play gets my dander up. Like I said, you may be a lucky, innocent bystander. I take your declination of cooperation as truth. But as Reagan said, trust but verify - we'll let the mods decide. If nothing else, Ravintsara gets an education on how to play for a draw instead of giving SCs away.

On to the next game...
20 May 20 UTC I understand your annoyance czech, but Ravi is right in one respect and that is that once he was not attacking you and I had broken through, his movds made it clear his anger. You didn't lose centres to me because I realised that you were keeping his anger hot.

In essence, you failed to realise that Diplomacy is part of gunboat games; your loss my game and the only bad taste in my mouth comes from your accusations of unfair play and Persia's childish accusations of cheating. Another 12 hours to apologise CondiRice- after which I report you
20 May 20 UTC From Autumn 09 to Spring 11 I never once attacked Carthage. Only held in support (that's 6 turns, three years inclusive). In Autumn 12, I attacked Venetia out of disgust at his play. But that time, you'd marched to Mauretania. Come On Man! That's BS that I somehow was such a nuisance to Carthage that he had no choice but to let you walk all the way through his homeland.

Yep your gain. My play isn't the issue, though. And you keep failing to call out Carthage for his play.
20 May 20 UTC *sigh*
20 May 20 UTC Why should I call Carthage out for weird play? I am not my brother's keeper - if I spent my time seeking to impose my views of how the game should be played on everyone I thought was doing it wrong, I would never be done. When guys invest their time in this game and they do something stupid then that's up to them, as long as they don't drop out.

I have no duty to 'call' anyone out; that you have I understand. In your position I would have asked him what the hell he was thinking of. And I certainly wouldn't have wasted the mods time with a groundless complaint. But I do have the right to protect myself from accusations of cheating.

CondiRice's accusations of cheating are not permitted - 12 hrs are up.
20 May 20 UTC Well, CondiRice is obviously a new player. And all new players think they see cheating behind gunboat support, alliance or coordination. I don't know if it's worth wasting time on this. Better send him an MP to explain how alliances can form in a gunboat. He will do what he wants with it then.
20 May 20 UTC For my part, I did not think of creating such a bazaar. I was disappointed by the attitude of Greece which preferred to favor the victory of Egypt (I do not see a difference between its acts and mine, the goal was the same). And now, he admits that he chose passivity (towards Egypt) in the hope of a drawn. Is it a more sporty spirit? Better fair play? I do not think so, but the debate will lead to nothing. I do not regret what I did but I will not do it again because it generates unnecessary frustration.
I wish you a good continuation, and that I will meet you again with pleasure on other cards.
20 May 20 UTC And even if I wanted to resist, Chumbles would have won! He didn't need my "support". And thank you for the start of the alliance.
20 May 20 UTC Moderator: (Tom Bombadil): Hello everyone. This is a reminder that making cheating accusations or insinuations publicly, whether in game like this, or on the forum is NOT allowed. If you have a concern you can contact the moderator team privately.
21 May 20 UTC Just checked czechveck's statement "From Autumn 09 to Spring 11 I never once attacked Carthage." You continually attacked Carthaginian fleets in the Ionian and Messenian Seas throughout the period you state. I'm with Ravi on this one, your attacks only ceased after I broke through in Africa. For future reference

1. Don't try and enforce your views on how the game is played on others.
2. Once the game is done, accept defeat. Don't whinge to cover your own errors.
3. If you want to signal in gunboat a desire for peace, don't launch attacks.
4. Don't accuse fellow players of collusion unless you have reasonable proof*

*Ravi's anger was quite reasonable - you continued to attack him AND in '9 when I had wiped Persia, and was about to break through in Africa you left your back door wide open to me. In truth, both of you contributed to my victory, for which I thank you from the bottom of my beer glass. :¬))

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Chumbles (904 D (S))
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 25 D
19 supply-centers, 17 units
czechveck (328 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Ravintsara (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
6 supply-centers, 8 units
CondiRice (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
khunkwai (113 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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