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Finished: 08 AM Mon 22 Apr 19 UTC
Featured You must be this tall...
1 days, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 2940 D - Spring, 1919, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
20 Apr 19 UTC GG all. I enjoyed that endgame!
20 Apr 19 UTC france fought well and he deserved survive
20 Apr 19 UTC Gg all.
20 Apr 19 UTC I thought we could bring it down to a 3 Way - but yes, it was a nice battle with France and England.
20 Apr 19 UTC Good game. Damn I’m not sure what I could have done differently that would have mattered.
20 Apr 19 UTC Great play Germany.
Turkey, I'm sorry, I was hoping for a great alliance with you, but failing to take Greece or Serbia by you (not me), kind of killed us. Finally, England giving the game for Germany didn't help my case, not to attack you.

England, I'm curious, what was your thinking what will happen after you let Germany take Russia?? What did you think who will Germany attack next? I'm super curious what your plan has been there, when you haven't attacked Germany early in 1903...

You could have secured your survival, crush Germay, and keep in at bay. Yet you chose differently. I would love to hear, what your plan was there.
20 Apr 19 UTC I hold to the philosophy that England cannot succeed while France is intact. I fully expected Germany and/or Italy to attack France once I initiated war. Germany initially let me attack France all out, but later held me back (and Italy helped France, which astounded me) which resulted in France being impossible for me to hit. I attacked Germany out of frustration and bitterness, hoping that some other power would be able to take advantage of the situation.

I don’t think Russia is a meaningful ally to England and it doesn’t matter at all if Russia is destroyed, even by Germany. I was the first player to conquer a Russian home center (not Germany).

I expected Germany to attack France together with me, the same way we were attacking Russia together successfully. Germany made many orders clearly showing trust and cooperation, leaving Holland, Denmark, and Sweden all open in 1904. Germany was my main ally and I was very happy about all that. Germany is the best neighbor-ally for England. Germany attacked France with me for many years.

then Italy came in to help France, which made it f-ing impossible for me to progress (not saying this was bad for Italy but it was bad for ME).

Germany moved a fleet to Denmark, forcing me to keep one of my fleets behind at North Sea. This angered me very much because 1) I needed all my forces to fight France 2) Italy was helping France so it was like I was fighting 7 or 8 units just 3 and 3) Germany kept trying to make gains vs Russia while he was NOT supporting or assisting my attacks in France (I could tell from this that Germany was fixing to backstab me as soon as it was convenient)

I betrayed Germany in 1907 almost entirely because that fleet in Denmark and lack of German assistance prevented me from being able to capture even 1 French center. Because I wasn’t capturing anything from France, I knew Germany would eventually betray me, so I figured that even if Germany or France eliminated me as a result of my attack on Germany, I was going to lose even if I didn’t attack Germany at that point.

So rokakoma, I did attack Germany, but in my view the strategy of doing so has nothing to do with protecting Russia. Who cares about Russia when you’re england?
20 Apr 19 UTC First, thx for the thourough explanation. Secondly, as long as Russia has a fleet around baltic sea Germany cannot do whatever they want. Thirdly, I think we all should care about all other 6 countries regardless who we are.

Your enemy's enemy is your friend. Helping Russia helps Turkey which keeps italy+austria in check while you deal with france. There are no isolated events in this game.

My thinking was, once Germany gets rid of my fleet in the Baltic sea you are cooked. Your thinking was differnt and I respect it. I just wanted to know what it was, so thx for explainig.
20 Apr 19 UTC I can understand your frustration England. In 1903 I fight Russia and France together with you, I give you STP, when Italy starts to jump at me, immediately assisted by Austria. I resisted it, lost BUR in the process, but in response, in 1904 you tried to stab me by taking BEL! So I became cautious and had to start covering my sc because I was wide open to you. Thus the fleet in DEN which irritated you so much. And you stabbed me a second time in 1907 when I am in France and you are still in STP...
As you wrote, you had one ally only but you stabbed him twice. That's probably "what you could have done better".
20 Apr 19 UTC I didn’t stab you for Belgium in Autumn 1904. I really wish you had the sense to understand that (for my own sake).

I was preventing France from getting Belgium because it seemed very uncertain to me that you would actually support-hold Belgium — and if you did then my move would fail. If I wanted to attack for real I would have taken Denmark or holland (like I did when I sincerely attacked 3 years later) and wouldn’t have moved London to Wales. That wasn’t enough to convey to you that I didn’t want to attack?

Clearly though you did believe that I was trying to backstab you, so that does seem like a screw up on my part. But I wasn’t trying to conquer Belgium or attack you on that turn.
20 Apr 19 UTC Rokakoma, by your response I think I was unclear with my messages. I am not saying that I ignored or would ignore what is happening all around the board. I agree with you that a player needs to consider the entire board at all times.

What I am saying is that, as England, I want and expect Russia to be destroyed. I cooperated with Germany as my ally in order to get you (Russia) eliminated.

I don’t believe at all that a strong Russia necessarily helps or would have helped Turkey, and I also don’t think England needs Turkey to be strong; A strong Austria is a perfectly good alternative to a strong Turkey (for England).
20 Apr 19 UTC no Russia, your idiotic stab killed us, England Germany Austria and yes even Italy were all attacking you, one person was not attacking you, turkey, and you stabbed him and what happened Russia died and turkey died. seriously at the moment for people were attacking you and you thought it was a good idea to make a fifth enemy?
21 Apr 19 UTC Calm down Turkey. This is just a game.
I attacked you once I saw Im gonna lose Warshaw and eventually everything. It was pure survival instinct, not backstabbin you. As you pointed out, everyone was attacking me, so I was simply going in the direction of the lowest resistance. I purley wanted to stay alive.
21 Apr 19 UTC It's a douchebag way to play.
21 Apr 19 UTC And we would have both survived if you had kept fighting on your property warfront.
21 Apr 19 UTC Proper
21 Apr 19 UTC as I said. I'm sorry
21 Apr 19 UTC It was just bewilderingly stupid, never in my wildest imagination would any sane strong Russian player have attacked turkey in that moment, we would fought for many years after that, it was a total suicide move, it wasn't fighting for survival, it is called poaching and sniping at your ally, something that great players never do.
21 Apr 19 UTC Omg the Tugster drama
21 Apr 19 UTC <3 Tugster
21 Apr 19 UTC Cannot stand when people make rookie mistakes in high stake games it just bothers me.
21 Apr 19 UTC Turkey, speaking of rookie mistakes, why haven't you take Greece in the first place?

Supporting me into Serbia was the stupidest thing I have ever seen, while you had 2 rounds to take and keep Greece. You forced me to abandon Warshaw, while you also put Austria in a position to protect Greece.
21 Apr 19 UTC Maybe quit while you're behind rokakoma. Tugster was one of the best Turkish allies to Russia I have seen in 50 gunboat games. That's not a "rookie mistake"...

I've been Italy or Austria once or twice where Turkey made a blind support of the Russia's move to Serbia and been devastated. I'm so jealous that it never happens to me when I draw Russia...
22 Apr 19 UTC Speaking of stupid moves russia, when you move Romania to Serbia you FOLLOW with Black Sea, not my fault that you made a shitty move I made a good move.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
0k0k0 (4588 D)
Drawn. Bet: 420 D, won: 735 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
Austria
chluke (8515 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 420 D, won: 735 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Italy
josemurc (28843 D)
Drawn. Bet: 420 D, won: 735 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
France
SplitDiplomat (101495 D)
Drawn. Bet: 420 D, won: 735 D
3 supply-centers, 3 units
England
swordsman3003 (12726 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 420 D
Turkey
Tugster (9157 D)
Defeated. Bet: 420 D
Russia
rokakoma (19138 D)
Defeated. Bet: 420 D
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