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Finished: 05 AM Mon 24 Dec 18 UTC
Private 2018 World Cup Finals - FP2
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1911, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Unranked, Wait for orders
1 excused missed turn
Game won by MadMarx (36290 D (G))
07 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): I'm gonna leave this paused for a day, then unpause on Saturday afternoon/evening. I've un-gunboated it so you can all chat a bit.
08 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: <3 you're the best GM
08 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Hi All,
Sorry that my team is holding you all up.
This position looks challenging, but I'll see what I can do.
Thanks to Goldie for being amazing.
08 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): To be clear, I will not be resetting the phase when I unpause. This is your time to negotiate. I'll extend to tomorrow evening instead of afternoon because I wasn't clear before.
08 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): I'll aim for after 9pm EST
09 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Unpaused. Apologies for the delay everyone. I had tried.to make it transparent and goofed :/
14 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Hi all, I've noticed the WFO and contacted the player
14 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: I can't figure this game out. What is England doing?
14 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Oh, thanks for reminding me to gunboat
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: Okay so I'm more than willing to like help y'all stop the solo if you're willing. Please message me if this is a think you're into. I'm like, good at tactics and shit
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: England, a little advice for future diplomacy games.
When someone is about to solo, that is bad. You generally want to try and stop them. It is also helpful to work with allies. This may be news for you, but taking their centers is quite different from helping. Their units are WAY better positioned than any new unit you are building.
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: It's taking all my willpower not to absolutely flip out on how predictable this all was.
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: The best part is England's draw vote isn't even up. Still being promised that 17/17?
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: It's a good thing you eliminated me Marx, because there's no way I would have let you get this close. Good on you for this.
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: And if England could learn how to play diplomacy before he attempts it again, that'll be great for everyone :)
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: Learning what a stalemate line is and how many centres are needed to win (18 btw) is probably a good start England!
16 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: "It's a good thing you eliminated me Marx, because there's no way I would have let you get this close. Good on you for this."
By being eliminated in an entirely predicable fashion, you let him get this close.
16 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: What kind of smoothie?!
16 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: That one is funny. Why are you attacking Germany for the last three years?
19 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Paused for 24 hours.
20 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Unpaused
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Sorry Austria, I know you really didn't want a Turkish solo so you're probably disappointed
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: I expect nothing more from the quality of players in this world cup. No surprise a fantastic newbie whisperer would win a game full of newbies. Congrats Turkey, well played.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: I'm curious how you would have played that differently? In games I lose I like going back and trying to pin down key mistakes. I know I left myself too open to England early on and perhaps shouldn't have stabbed Italy but from then on, I really don't see what I would have done differently.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: I am also a newbie :)
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: But really I think what I would do differently is I wouldn't throw Turkey the game. Yeah.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Germany you were never going to get cut from this draw after last year. It simply was never going to happen, but Turkey managed to convince you it would. I'm both impressed at his play and disgusted at yours.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: That's fair. I just had no interest in letting a two-way draw happen and don't see a three way being an option anymore. I also straight up told England last turn that I'd throw the game unless they stopped attacking me (giving some more specifics) but they chose to take Holland anyways. I'm not one to throw games very often but this really fit all of my criteria of not seeing a way for me to get into the draw, one player deserving the one more, and the other player not co-operating at all.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: He probably would have solo'd anyway after England's moves last year.

But I'm shocked you actually believed there was going to be a 2wd without you Germany and that was your motivation.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Man I want to read Turkey's press to you guys. I think I don't realize how stupid people actually are.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: I mean there's a lot of context of England seeming dead-set on eliminating me throughout our press for the past however many years while maintaining good communication with Turkey. But ultimately what it comes down to is Turkey clearly outlining the plan they and England made to get a two-way and England not being able to counter why that wouldn't work or wouldn't happen. England readily admitted in our press that Turkey could have a two-way draw whenever they like and their only argument of why that wouldn't happen is because Turkey would for some reason accept a three-way draw instead.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Let me tell you a thing.

Two ways are a myth.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Ya, I guess that's where Turkey's press came in. I'd be curious to hear now that I've thrown them the game, what level of truth there was to what they were saying but they managed to convince me that a) it was possible and b) they were going to do it.
21 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Everyone has their own uniquely skewed perspective, but from where I sit, Germany didn’t have a single prayer in hell of getting anything out of this game after the previous season, I’ll take that to my grave.
22 Dec 18 UTC I don't know if this is true with Germany and England's relationship, but I do know that England has been very quiet with me. Now that could be because of my lack of relevance, but I would guess that Germany received much more press from Turkey than England.

That said, I second Austria's comment that two ways are a myth. I myself am not great at threatening to throw when in Germany's position, but it seems that Turkey scared Germany enough to get them to actually throw.
22 Dec 18 UTC Wow Italy, who are you and why didn't you replace Italy in like... 1903.
22 Dec 18 UTC Also the thing is this an unranked tournament game Germany. It'd probably help your team more if you just got eliminated versus you throwing the solo. I'm pretty sure you just played king-maker for this entire tournament.
22 Dec 18 UTC ^ That is exactly why England was rolling the dice, pursuing England’s own tournament win condition, going so far as prioritizing his own team’s tournament win condition over Austria’s team’s tournament win condition, can you seriously not appreciate that?
22 Dec 18 UTC His win condition is throwing a solo? Not really. A 3wd would have been a great outcome for him. Even a 4wd is better.
22 Dec 18 UTC So you win the tournament? There is no second place, only first loser, go hard or go home...
22 Dec 18 UTC I mean there was no way England's team was going to win anyway I think. At that point you play for the best spot you can get? That's what I would do anyway. However, England has informed me that he hates **me** as a human being so much he would have thrown to Cascadia anyway ;)
22 Dec 18 UTC There’s the epiphany! That’s what *you* would do, but if you look outside yourself every once in a while you will realize that different people have different priorities, and that’s their right...

In England’s defense, look back at your global posts, they are completely toxic, constantly spewing arrogance and hate, it’s not the best look...
22 Dec 18 UTC Italy has a pretty accurate read here. England wasn't completely silent but up until that last turn (and even up until right before that last pause) the only communication was brief and combative (with a nice mix of condescension). By the time they started pleading their case, Turkey had done a good job of talking through all the possibilities and countering potential arguments. I also like to judge a player based on how they deal with disagreements. Turkey and I had a pretty big disagreement about how cautious to be with eliminating Italy but Turkey didn't stop communicating and we got over it and were able to move on. England on the other hand did none of that. I think the worst case was when I outlined what I needed from England so that I would not throw the game and that it would end in a three-way and they just responded "no.". I don't say this to be rude or point fingers but for the sake of an EOG I think if anyone is looking at this game and asking what went wrong, I would say an important thing is to continue communicating and being friendly.
22 Dec 18 UTC "In England’s defense, look back at your global posts, they are completely toxic, constantly spewing arrogance and hate, it’s not the best look..."

Wow I really thought I held back this game :)

"There’s the epiphany! That’s what *you* would do, but if you look outside yourself every once in a while you will realize that different people have different priorities, and that’s their right..."

I think most diplomacy players should play for the best possible result for themselves and that is what I'd do, yes. But then I guess we would never have any solos would we...? So maybe you are right here.
22 Dec 18 UTC @Austria, in terms of who I am, I imagine that you will find out in a couple days when this game ends. As to why I did not replace Italy in 1903: I was playing in FP1. I only stepped in after the third NMR when our sub didn't have time. (Sorry Goldie if this is metagaming or something, but both games are basically done and Austria seems to have a good sense of who people are anyways).

I think that Germany's movements make sense from a certain perspective. Clearly they aren't ideal, but at a certain point one feels that they most follow through on their threats. Austria, you clearly have a right to be upset given that it hurts your team, but also recognize that Turkey was just more communicative than England which matters for many players, if not you.
22 Dec 18 UTC I actually don't know who anyone is team wise other than Turkey, but that's because Marx has a very distinct and impressive press style.

But yeah, I'm over the tournament anyway so I don't care much (my team might be crying a bit though). But I think it was definitely well played on Turkey's part. Keeping up that communication late game can be exhausting, and Marx clearly does it well.
22 Dec 18 UTC FTR - I’d have Marseilles guaranteed this fall simply based on the orders England submitted, so Germany didn’t actually throw the game, Germany just tried to throw it.
22 Dec 18 UTC (end of discussion, I would have easily held Berlin, obviously)
22 Dec 18 UTC Good game everyone.
22 Dec 18 UTC Gg. Congrats

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
MadMarx (36290 D (G))
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
20 supply-centers, 17 units
England
Ezio (1746 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
10 supply-centers, 12 units
Germany
AviF (726 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
3 supply-centers, 3 units
Italy
celaph (409 D)
Survived. Bet: 0 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
France
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Austria
Durga (3659 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Russia
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
peterwiggin (15274 D Mod (S))Austria (Autumn, 1902) with 6 centres.
Shathebean (377 D)Italy (Autumn, 1909) with 3 centres.
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