Finished: 12 PM Sat 02 Sep 17 UTC
Live for undead
5 minutes /phase
Pot: 70 D - Spring, 1909, Finished
Classic, Rulebook press, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
01 Sep 17 UTC there was no foul play, but if you want to waste your time go ahead
01 Sep 17 UTC That is not a word we use here. And Germany, I never said I played well.
01 Sep 17 UTC go ask your high ranked friends. unlike SOME people I have things to do now that this game is over. Don't need to sit here arguing in a game I'm not even in.
01 Sep 17 UTC @Italy Amen!
01 Sep 17 UTC yeah we don't swear here. we only accuse people of cheating every time we lose.
01 Sep 17 UTC You didn't do foul play, you just don't know how to play Diplomacy correctly.
01 Sep 17 UTC I made another live game, feel free to join.
01 Sep 17 UTC Just kidding, 10D bet :P
01 Sep 17 UTC Have you ever thought that some people enjoy different things? I enjoy playing and strategy and teamwork. I got my fair share of stabbing with Russia when he made a dumb mistake.
01 Sep 17 UTC Interestingly, Russia and I were the only players who have decent ghostratings. hmm.
01 Sep 17 UTC Germany, I'm not claiming my high rank means anything. I'm claiming I prefer to play with people with the same mind set and the same goals and the same picture of what a fun game is.
01 Sep 17 UTC Well if the guy accusing me of not playing correctly was the guy out barely after the NMR I consider myself pretty okay.

You just only know how to play one way. I don't play your way doesn't mean I don't play right. But yeah. Keep accusing people to make yourself feel better. See ya around in the "high ranks."
01 Sep 17 UTC I dunno, I guess you guys have the right to play how you wish. But you'll never be rated highly if you have "true alliances" in anon games.
01 Sep 17 UTC and look where those ghost ratings got you haha
01 Sep 17 UTC Message me when you're ranked on GR Germany, I'm curious.
01 Sep 17 UTC And I just started playing online like 3 weeks ago. so rating is low. hope to keep seeing people who are single minded thinkers in the future!
01 Sep 17 UTC Germany... they got me in a 5-way as a Lepanto vs a Jugg, with a France stabbing me in 1902 and an unbreakable GE alliance... I think I did pretty well.
01 Sep 17 UTC I doubt you will ever be top 1k in GR.
01 Sep 17 UTC The problem might be that movin dip from competitive tournament games to online "feel good games" dont work. If you're expecting your opponents to play to win and to maximize your own achievement then of course you get screwed when they dont. If me and Italy had 100% trusted and worked together from turn 1 Iäm pretty sure we could do the same. So if that is what is expected, then everyone has to have the same expectations. Now that we didn't we had a clash of "cultures" if you want.
01 Sep 17 UTC I dunno what the solution to that is, Russia. I guess passworded games, but you can never get a passworded live game off the ground.
01 Sep 17 UTC Well, if we hadn't drawn I would stab Italy and Austria ofc. I had an opportunity for insta 3 points, I was waiting for 4-5. That's the beauty of this game.
01 Sep 17 UTC Try making friends. easy to make games that way. It's hard for some people though I get it.
01 Sep 17 UTC Perhaps we should play SoS scoring live games.
01 Sep 17 UTC I play mostly on where me and my friends from the swedish ftf scene organize games, most often with end year 1908.
01 Sep 17 UTC Germany, you may dislike me and you may think I am wrong, and that I played bad today, but it would be wrong to call me a bad dip player. I have been playing ftf tournaments for so many years that you were probaly not born, and I have been part of the developing team of the USTR variant judge, the Drodippy app, I have been playing ftf tournaments before you were born I guess. So you could opt to think that "hey, maybe this old boring guy might have some insights I could benefit by listening to". Just a thought.
01 Sep 17 UTC I'm saying you're making a lot of assumptions not knowing me at all. You call me a bad player. You and Italy point at my rating like that means anything for someone who just started on the site. You have no idea what my history is with playing in person. You have no idea what my history is playing on other sites. Yet you think I MUST be bad because I played THIS game well. This isn't how I play every game; that would be stupid. But in THIS game it worked. Your strategy didn't. Sometimes you have to play to the level of your neighbors and opponents. Some people are quicker at adjusting strategy than others.
01 Sep 17 UTC I'm not saying you're bad... I am saying you're not playing Diplomacy. You're playing some other board game at the same time.

You're not rated yet, you're only rated after you play for a month.
01 Sep 17 UTC I didnt call you bad. I said you played what one might consider another game than me.
01 Sep 17 UTC But yes. You've been playing forever. This game is more important to you than most. But you don't know me. Your opinions are so full of accusations and assumptions that nothing you say has any worth to me. If you wanted to give insight then don't be a jerk to people. Maybe then they'd listen.
01 Sep 17 UTC You were a jerk all game Germany...
01 Sep 17 UTC Calling someone a cheater and an inexperienced player isn't how you make friends who want to listen to your "insight"
01 Sep 17 UTC When did I start talking in global? Hmm. Was it possibly after I was accused by you and Russia of cheating? Oh wait. Yeah! Sorry I wasn't friendly to you after that.
01 Sep 17 UTC "true alliances" are no different from premades. They fuck the game in the exact same way.
01 Sep 17 UTC And they look almost identical. You should be more empathetic.
01 Sep 17 UTC indeed
01 Sep 17 UTC and for the record I never called you a cheater. I actually suspected you were a good player taking advantage of a weak player and would solo quickly.
01 Sep 17 UTC No different? We worked together and built trust throughout the game. Where in the rules does it say you can't work together? Where does it say that 2 way draws aren't okay? Maybe we would've stabbed each other at some point but you two got so heated about us cheating it just made us want to stay together even more. Ever consider that baseless accusations and assumptions ruin games too? Nah. You wouldn't ever admit to doing something wrong yourself!
01 Sep 17 UTC True alliances aren't against the rules on this site. But they damage the integrity of the game in the exact same way.
01 Sep 17 UTC Insinuating you were cheating was wrong, I'm sorry. But if you looked at things from my perspective for 5 seconds you might see why things looked like that.
01 Sep 17 UTC I was actually using him tbh. I had tentative alliances with him, france, italy, austria, and russia. Look at my first move. Left Berlin and Munich open. Any one of Russia Austria or Italy could've screwed me hard but I played the diplomacy early. England made a very big leap of faith and I paid him off for it with continued support. He even admitted to me he was a newer after the game.

France was the first to turn on me and keeping england was the best way to deal with that. Russia was the first to make me legitimately worried so I dealt with that and used england for that as well.

That would've been the time to backstab and then take the full north, but that's when the accusations came out so I decided I'd rather continue working with him to spite you two than solo win.

If you actually look at the beginning of the game it was played very well. Possibly even by someone who has played for well over a decade in person in hundreds of games!? The part where I made my "mistakes" where when the accusations started flying.

So Russia but mostly Italy, next time you accuse someone of ruining the game maybe consider that those accusations and assumptions did more to harm this game than any move I made ever did.
01 Sep 17 UTC I am actually trying to convey a message here: the experienced players dont play the way you did. If this was the only time you played this way and you just took advantage of a easily duped England you would have stabbed, so that leads me to think that you think this is a long run successful strategy. And it isnt! So you could learn that from me. If you already knew it; then fine! Good for you.

Until we meet again I bid you farewell.

vixol / Christian Dreyer
01 Sep 17 UTC kay. England was throwing the game to you and basically admitting as much, I was upset for good reason. Dunno what you want from me.
01 Sep 17 UTC I understand the thought. We made some really strange moves and honestly I didn't expect most of them to work. You can look back at my moves and see I was covering myself for a bit assuming he wouldn't follow through. But I needed him as I explained and I question why what I did was "wrong." Especially explained as above. This was 100% a solo win if I wanted it. I would've had it if the accusations didn't start. It wasn't bad play.
01 Sep 17 UTC England was a new player. If you don't want to play with new players or NMR's like France don't play a low bid online game. Find friends or play higher stakes. You're pissed about something that happens in almost every game here.
01 Sep 17 UTC Yeah I disagree with Russia, I don't think you played poorly. Just that your "game philosophy" (which you seem to be backtracking on?) is bad for the game.
01 Sep 17 UTC There is a difference between "this happens a lot" and "this is OK". It is absolutely my prerogative to be pissed at England when he is game throwing.
01 Sep 17 UTC Sorry, have to comment on that last word from Germany even though I said farewell.

If you chose not to solo you did everything as wrong as Italy and I were saying and deserved to hear you were not playing in the spirit of the game. Over and out.
01 Sep 17 UTC I'm not backtracking at all. This is a game. Why would I want to get so worked up and angry about it as you did? I have no issue with splitting a win. My plan originally was to solo but things changed because of how you acted.

And as I said, if you don't like the way random anon low bid games are then don't play them. You knew what you were getting into when you joined.

England absolutely didn't "throw" the game. He was a new player and played pretty decently for a new player to be honest. But he played like a new player. France threw too and you had no issue taking Marseilles from him; taking advantage of someone like that.

So you had 2 new players in a game. Expect that when you play low bid games.

Your alternative is to either play high bid or make friends and play private ones. Why you're getting pissy about the norm for this type of game is beyond me.
01 Sep 17 UTC Is the spirit of the game berating the other people and calling them cheaters? Pretty sure that's not. Italy got pissy and you both got on your high horses and accused. I don't like people who act that way and worked to get you guys out. If you don't want games to be played that way then don't act that way. None of this mess started until you two started whining in global. But continue to blame me and not yourself.
01 Sep 17 UTC cya all.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Axxl (289 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
mfliegauf1 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
vixol (1186 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
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