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Finished: 10 AM Sat 04 Feb 17 UTC
Featured Private Thou Art A Very Earth. Villain
2 days /phase
Pot: 1050 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
16 Dec 16 UTC Spring, 1906: Fine to me, pause vote entered.
16 Dec 16 UTC Spring, 1906: Many thnks
19 Dec 16 UTC Spring, 1906: Thanks again everyone. I am voting to unpause now.
19 Dec 16 UTC Spring, 1906: Just got you wisdo tooth surgery. Can't confirm anyt good press and moves for the next few days
01 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1908: Happy New Year, everyone. I hope no one else has a hangover as bad as mine.
14 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Hey everyone, I have an emergency. Can we pause until Monday night?
14 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Pause vote entered. Hope isn't nothing serious.
17 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Thanks everyone. I'm back now.
18 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Hope everything is okay England. Welcome back. Ihad a busy week. Would you mind if I extend the pause just 24hrs so I can do some talking around the board?

On the game:
I must say that the machinations between England and Germany have been very interesting to spectate. No idea what E and F's motives are for 5(!) years of zero growth, trying to break a record? ;)
18 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I think they're all just sick and tired of the game and I'm a friendly face :)
26 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 1910: I guess I should send some press this turn.
27 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Hey England, Turkey said he'll end the game by finishing Italy once you and I take down France. On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid of an idea is that?
27 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: lol
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: He could have saved some effort and just asked us if we wanted him to solo or not.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Hahaha
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: That's not what I said, but I'm not going to argue with Germany. I must say this game has been about cowardly draw play by all three western power. Germany's the worst of the pack in that respect. Validating his 'I want to draw as fast as possible' attitude by saying:
"Well, I'm not even getting scored in the tournament, so it doesn't affect any of you at all if you let me live, so hopefully you let me live because I was nice enough to take this crappy spot in the first place....Remember that I am not actually in this tournament; I would just like this game over personally."
Actually what I'd most prefer, is E/F taking out Germany with an attitude towards this game like that. I'm willing to support England and France into a lot of scs to make that happen. It's pretty annoying playing with someone that is actively trying to pacify the game, because 'he's just a sub' Don't take the spot if you don't want to play I'd say. I imagine there'd be enough people that would want into this game, if properly advertised. I'm guessing this game is the highest GR rated of the GR challenge games Ghug created.

If you WT powers want to draw so bad, why not draw now then? I have zero inclination to remove Italy from this game and why not keep in Russia? I'm not a draw cutter, I'm here to play Diplomacy to win the game. I like to create exciting positions at which enough people have prospects to grow and ... who knows what more.

My draw vote is up.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: I subbed into this game to replace a guy who was going through some serious shit in his life. He didn't want some nobody idiot off the forum to play, so he asked me. Sorry if I'm such a letdown, Turkey. How would you have played my position? Genuine question. Start in S06, with three fleets and two armies, and lay it out for me. Here's my thought process:

I can attack England, and get absolutely nowhere. I can also leave him alone since he can't do shit to me without armies. For whatever reason, he never built any, which made his long-term position equally ineffective as mine. I can attack France, and maybe I'll get some centers, but then I leave what little defense my predecessor left me with (two armies) unavailable if Russia, who was already as far west as Tyrolia and bordering my homeland, were to attack. I can attack Russia, a more natural adversary and someone who offered me little positive press, which I did, and ultimately I got nowhere. I had English support, but you offered me no reason to believe that I had yours, which, given that England literally had no armies to put in St. Petersburg, meant that I was doing the legwork and still would probably only end up in Warsaw barring a miracle. You attacked him the moment I had to defend, and for some reason, rather than going for Munich and supporting himself into Silesia, as I expected in S07, Russia chose to make the wrong move and push three units north in order to keep one center that he was bound to lose anyway. If he made the right move there and had French support, I would be dead right now.

When Russia finally decides to do something smart and attack me, I'm surrounded by both him and France with only two armies. They could have taken Berlin and Munich and finished me then and there. Instead, Russia made another stupid move and went back to you as opposed to convincing France to attack me. At this point, I'm sick of my predecessor's terrible unit arrangement and start arranging to build some armies, and since then, that has been my plan. As of this moment, I have four. I'm about to have five. I can defend myself from anyone right now, which means I can also attack anyone right now.

tl;dr - if Russia actually had press relationships with players other than you, Turkey, I would be dead, and instead of a WT v Turkey scenario, it would be E/F v R/T.

Sure, I could have gone on a suicidal rampage against England like my predecessor did, and I would still have three fleets and two armies, an adversarial relationship with my most important ally against France, who could have made himself a solo threat if he wanted to, and no possibility of defending myself against Russia, France, or you, if you ever make it up to my homeland. So again, genuine question - what the hell would you have done, beginning in S06, with three fleets and two armies? I think it's a wonder that I made it out of my predecessor's awful position alive.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: "Germany's message."

I came out to have a fun time and I am honestly feeling so attacked right now.

Also, I did spend quite a bit time trying to get something going with England and France, but neither of them really wanted in. I tried my best to get France going after you, same with England, but couldn't make any progress with either of them.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Turkey, Germany's predecessor defend himself pretty well so that by the time the sub came in, I had zero armies. It's taken like 5 years for me to get just the one somewhere useful. And before the WT existed, France was fighting *me*, remember, so it's not like I have ever had a free hand to drive this bus.

Russia, honestly, I would have needed you and France to be sending me a joint plan to make any big move. Everything else was too risky and didn't lead to me getting armies. And by the time I had an army and some independence, I was more worried about France becoming a solo threat than anything else, so attacking Germany was basically a non-starter almost every turn since he subbed in.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: My problem is not with your strategy at all Germany, its well played youre still alive, maybe you need to reread my message. Its is with your continous discussion stopper: 'I'm a sub, I don't want to do anything but end this in a draw asap'. I don't know why you insist so much on taking out Italy and Russia then. Let's relieve you of your arduous duty and draw right away.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: I understand completely England. I was just taking a slight issue with Germany's categorization of my decisions as "stupid." I just wasn't able to create the diplomatic atmosphere needed for me to make the smart moves, since I was not skilled enough to convince either England or France to give me a hand.

I'm not stupid, I am just incompetent at convincing people to do things.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Lmao Turkey, "continuous" is a funny word to use since I haven't made much mention of the fact that I'm not scored in the tournament since 1906, when I got the WT rolling. 1906, for clarity, was in mid-December.

I don't care if you take out Italy or not. This scoring system is made to reduce draws. We even named it as such to make it clear what its purpose was. If you don't like reducing draws, why are you playing it?
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Fine, Russia, incompetent works. My primary point was that you would have been better off doing something other than what you did, particularly when you scrambled up north to try to retake St. Petersburg when its loss was inevitable anyway. You had a chance to do some serious damage on my end, which is why I retreated, but you didn't make the right moves.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Personally I like smaller draws.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Personally, I don't like smaller draws.
28 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Are this a public pess now? Anyway, Russia, I tend to agree with Germnany about your play, I tried to reach you many times but you seem to be decided to sacrifice yourself to Turkey (that is the only one that seems to be really doing some effort in this game).
29 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Guys, I haven't been defeated since August 2013 in full press. I thought y'all might be able to break that streak but I didn't even break a sweat.
29 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: ;-)
29 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: ehh, I guess it's only 6 games back, nevermind carry on.
29 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Hahaha.. Still an impressive feat. Do you count a survive as a defeat?
29 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 1911: Yes!
01 Feb 17 UTC Autumn, 1911: My draw flag is up, someone is lying about theirs.
01 Feb 17 UTC Autumn, 1911: Mine isn't up yet.
01 Feb 17 UTC Autumn, 1911: I have no issues with Italy being in but Russia is already dead.
01 Feb 17 UTC Autumn, 1911: Fine drag it out.
01 Feb 17 UTC Autumn, 1911: My draw flag is up.
01 Feb 17 UTC Kewl
01 Feb 17 UTC or maybe no one was lying...
01 Feb 17 UTC congrats Italy, the rest of suck at coordinating our draw flags
01 Feb 17 UTC Right?

I'm still confused as to why I had to start this game with three fleets.
01 Feb 17 UTC That was rough. Should have been a 3WD but couldn't get E/G or T on board.
01 Feb 17 UTC I confess I didn't expect to be in the draw. Thanks everybody.
01 Feb 17 UTC Haha I told you you would :p

I tried to shake things up guys, but even my spiel in global didn't help.. Well played and good game. Germany, thanks for replacing old Germany. I rather liked his lack of fleets. France, don't you think you should have pushed into me further before betraying Italy?
01 Feb 17 UTC Yes, but everyone was bored and I ended up guessing right on when Italy would start defending himself. My hope was that he would still rather give me his centers than you.
01 Feb 17 UTC Neither of you could have beaten me anyway, unless England screwed me up and took my build that was going to be my fifth army. Oh, wait, he did that.
01 Feb 17 UTC that's bc we were going to eliminate you, but you got wise to the plan and Turkey didn't have the discipline to hold back another turn.
01 Feb 17 UTC Yeah, I had a feeling.
01 Feb 17 UTC I confess I expected France to at least try a solo shot.
02 Feb 17 UTC So did I...
02 Feb 17 UTC Yeah Stack was just waiting for me to move there, but I never got the units to even try.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
MrcsAurelius (3051 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 150 D, won: 210 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
France
Gen. Lee (7688 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 150 D, won: 210 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
England
Drawn. Bet: 150 D, won: 210 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Germany
bo_sox48 (4894 D Mod (G))
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 210 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Italy
rdrivera2005 (3319 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 150 D, won: 210 D
3 supply-centers, 2 units
Austria
MKECharlie (1926 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 150 D
Russia
Fortress Door (1842 D)
Defeated. Bet: 150 D
Civil Disorders
Ogion (3974 D)Germany (Spring, 1904) with 5 centres.
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