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Finished: 07 AM Thu 22 Sep 16 UTC
Classic Anon Dip 22
1 day /phase
Pot: 210 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Buzzle (1531 D)
15 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: Not to worry England. There are still great odds you will lose with the rest of us as you wish.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: I'll go down with the faith swinging.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: Instead of 35 for this game, youd rather get nothing?? Okay
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: You would probably be more convincing if you would quit attacking the country you are trying to win over to your cause, France.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: And, no matter how this game goes down, Austria (and Turkey, but Turkey is always a tough kill), you win the Determination award.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: ofcourse russia is going to publicly come to englands side, he wants the solo. :)
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: But, you don't deny your continued attack on England, whom you are also trying to talk into an attack on his steadfast ally. Very weird diplomacy style.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: Even if you convinced England to attack me, you would roll right up behind him, taking him out.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: At this point I'd suggest France stop attacking England and we all manage some measure of pastiche stalemate. But I'm also resigned to my fate of watching russia steamroll
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: I have offered this to england,
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: I'm not suggesting an attack on russia from England (though that would be nice). I'm instead suggesting England and France just leave each other alone and see if Austria France and I can concoct a stalemate line.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: Don't forget Turkey.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: I'll try to keep turkey as long as I can but I worry you'll be able to overpower despite my best efforts.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: It's a good worry. Right now we are just doing a dance, but soon one misstep and that will be that.
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: You an icy man Russia
16 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1906: I am sorry, I did not mean to let that show.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: This is the most civil game I've ever been involved with
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: I wouldn't exactly call this a game of diplomacy. Engalnd is playing gunboat/pawn.

First season after he breaks a DMZ he says "Sorry about being "That Guy", but as England I always attack france from the get go."

And now that an opportunity for a draw is in place, he is still attacking France. I have offered this season to back off, and he has laughed at me and said I had my chance earlier to make up...Oh yeah that season you said you'd back off, but you will require to hold English channel until trust can be built? Bah, the trust you threw away from the start.

I'll go down trying to stop the solo, but it is hard when someone is hellbent on giving the solo to someone instead of looking out for their own best interests.

Kingmaker since 01 is a lame strategy.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: I think part of the game is trying to convince people despite their unorthodox play styles. I'm intrigued by England's motivation. I imagine it's mostly based on spite, which to be honest I can respect.

I've done exactly what England's done before, cut off the nose to spite the face.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: That spite that saw me honor the DMZ in S01 while he broke it?
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: Spite moves in mysterious ways!

Ahahaha yeah I don't know how valuable it is to re-adjudicate spring 01.

England, correct me if I'm wrong, you're mainly bitter that France and I refused to turn on each other when you and Russia suggested it?
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: I believe he is mad because he would say that he wanted to work with me, but I continued to attack him(I had said until I see him offer some moves up, I'd have to continue to push him back off of mainland europe.) It simply felt like he was just trying to buy some time for Russia to come help him, none of his moves made any effort to move away from England. But if he can show me the moves that this was the case, and I have interpreted them wrong, I am willing to admit I was wrong.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: I have to add, that had France accepted the offer, he, I and England would have already wrapped up a 3 way draw.
Had Italy actually dealt with me in good faith in wanting a 3 way draw and turned on France, we probably would be wrapping up a 3 way draw.
I would suggest a four way draw, except that Italy cannot accept that because he would have to abandon helping Turkey and Austria. Which he cannot do because that would mean trusting me not to just roll him once I get Turkey and Austria out of the way.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: The easiest 3 way draw was itlay-france-russia, but why would you throw away your pawn who will help you solo...
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: What is this "pawn" thing? I merely did not attack, lie to, or attempt to deceive England the entire game. I acted completely honest with him in all dealings and assisted him where I could, and will continue to do so. That is what is normally called a good "ally". I understand you are irked that honesty and loyalty begets honesty and loyalty. It is not something that is so common in this game. So, I suppose it is natural that you would want to substitute wording to make yourself feel better about the situation.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: Pawn - a person used by others for their own purposes.

Honesty - Setting up a dmz, honoring it. Hmmm

Anyways, we all know that you are defending England in hopes that whatever koolaid you have fed him will continue to work to get a solo. "IF" and a big if, you really were sincere about him being your ally, you would be helping him grow and working towards a 2-way draw. You may have England hoodwinked, but you don't fool me.
17 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: Lol Russia.
18 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: France, Russia isn't controlling me, I just really hate the country and culture of France, and I'm not too fond of you either, so those two things combined compelled me to willingly destroy myself and help Russia win his solo, because at least if Russia wins, you don't.
18 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: That's the end then. I understand even if I don't share your style England.
18 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1907: I guess I need to go play in games that the bet is greater than 30, I figured 30 would be enough to get away from Idiots like England and to play vs Serious Dip players.
18 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: There will always be idiots like me ;)
19 Sep 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Hi guys I was just wondering if you could keep my monument in Berlin intact once this is over.
19 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Alas, I am vanquished. France, Italy, and England I urge you; do not let my death be in vain! You cannot permit the eastern giant to prevail!
19 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1908: He's already won. Con and Norway.
20 Sep 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Yes, England has succeeded in throwing away a chance at a draw so he can lose instead.
20 Sep 16 UTC Just the way God intended.
21 Sep 16 UTC good game all.
21 Sep 16 UTC Yawn
21 Sep 16 UTC Sorry it was so boring for you, France.
21 Sep 16 UTC It was lame, and it wasnt diplomacy.
21 Sep 16 UTC i concur. i had a bad game from the get go, but what happened between you guys later has nothing to do with good diplomacy.
21 Sep 16 UTC I had nothing to do with England's actions. Nothing other than my original diplomatic actions. What he did, he did of his own volition.

France, for all your talk of diplomacy, not one turn went by mid to late game where you did not press England. If you were trying to get him to break ranks with me, why didn't you just do some support holds for a turn or so to let him know you weren't just going to roll him once he turned on me.
21 Sep 16 UTC I'm not buying that this "wasn't diplomacy". I've played hundreds of in person games of dip and petty personal politics are sort of the name of the game. Trying to convince people out of their position is sort of the cornerstone of the fun part of the game.
21 Sep 16 UTC Italy's got it right.
21 Sep 16 UTC The mechanics of the game are boring af it's all about the personalities.

Anyway I had fun here. I regret that's not the case for everyone.
21 Sep 16 UTC Now if there were a ton of CD's and missed orders and whatever, THAT wouldn't be dip
21 Sep 16 UTC I'm with Italy on this one. A bad outcome doesn't mean a bad game.
21 Sep 16 UTC And, again, Austria and Turkey, you were both in tight spots and continued to fight. Austria, I have to apologize to you. My play style includes picking one player to never lie to and one player to lie to most of the time. You were the latter. It was nothing personal, it is just how I like to play.
21 Sep 16 UTC I felt like I had no choice but to attack England and try to get past him fast enough to stop russia. You didn't know the diplomacy between me and England, which was him lying time after time. England came into the game with the mindset "I am attacking France no matter what."

I would have backed off had he actually offered a plan, everytime he would say he would help vs Russia, he would say (But I am keeping ENG until trust is built), and then I would ask for coordinated moves, he would go MIA and order something to attack me again.

It wasn't diplomacy, I've played in plenty of games and usually play on , where you email back and forth for a week to 2 weeks at a time before submitting moves. This was someone playing gunboat and not listening to anything.

As for Russia and his "I built Trust", I DMZ'd the channel like I said I would and moved to Bur. That didn't matter to England, he was hellbent on attacking france from the get go and working with Russia.

Certain players like to "Try" things in games. I've see it many times before, a guy comes into a game saying "My plan is to just attack France this game" etc...

Anyways good luck fellas, I thought it was a point less game, other than I enjoyed working with Italy.
22 Sep 16 UTC Italy, you are just the guy. I liked working with Italy even though I ended up fighting him. France, I feel your pain. I have had games with opponents like that. In this one, I finally got to be on the benefiting end of a kamikaze's attack, so I abstain from judging England's play style.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Buzzle (1531 D)
Won. Bet: 30 D, won: 210 D
19 supply-centers, 16 units
Onslaught (151 D)
Survived. Bet: 30 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
LFDude (542 D)
Survived. Bet: 30 D
5 supply-centers, 6 units
Piggles (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 30 D
2 supply-centers, 3 units
DrugTito (906 D)
Survived. Bet: 30 D
0 supply-centers, 1 units
Lobisomen (15 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
fooltommery (235 D)
Defeated. Bet: 30 D
Civil Disorders
Toadstag (0 D X)Germany (Autumn, 1902) with 1 centres.
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