Finished: 02 PM Wed 20 Jul 16 UTC
Casual Modern Game
1 day /phase
Pot: 100 D - Autumn, 2004, Finished
Modern Diplomacy II, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Buzzle (1531 D)
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: Russia will keep fighting on the resistance. However big the evil is, we will keep loyal to justice. And forever standing with our heroic and honorable army.
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: vacating Prussia
moving switz-als with support
moving tyrr-naples with rome support
support hold Bordeaux
leaving cze open
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: People get too serious. Unexpected things always happen. I warned Germany and he throws away good advice. France complains about the same thing he did. Egypt is naive and was careless. Turkey took advantage of it, he makes mistakes, but he was never punished by Egypt, thats way he get away with it. Britain is just impatient. Poland was ok but tacticless, Ukraine didnt make any real mistake, that was just unlucky. And i dont remember what Spain and Italy did.

The game is not over yet, but somehow the mood seems to be about confessions. Diplomatics Anonymus ;. lol
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: On more detail, the reasons for Turkish rising went like this. At the first stage i supported him too much against Ukraine to vanish him quickly, Turkey was able to get the Balkans and all the BlackSea. I thought this was not a problem since Egypt was supposed to punish a strong Turkey. But Egypt didn't reacted, and he had the second biggest chance of stabbing (after france against germany) and he didn't take it. He were far nicer than what i was to Turkey. You could said that was the main problem right there. But turns later, then it comes France claiming to draw with Turkey and Egypt over petty reasons. Turkey and France grows even bigger at the expense of Poland. I can not attack Turkey, regardless since he invaded earlier. Therefore you could blame France at this point for being petty. Once he realize Turkey is going for the solo he reacts. I agree with him, but at this point Britain is impatient and do not agree, so you can blame Britain at this point. But the tip of the iceberg is France again giving up his own lands, then Turkey win is guaranty. You can see we are actually all to blame at some point. But you also could say the main problem was Egypt and his nice behavior towards Turkey, that is probably 50% of the problem right there. France lose hope, but in a game like this, fortunes are always changing, and you never know when someone in the lead may make a turn back. It is a very unpredictable game. Besides, i wonder if tomorrow maybe everybody changes his mind again, who knows?. Maybe Britain stop attacking France, Egypt reacts quickly, France stand his ground regardless of hope. Will there be a last chance of hope, or not?. Let's see what will be the next episode, and the _____ finale.
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002:
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: hahahahaha
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: Sorry I am a player who does not want to sit around on 6 centres for the rest of the game. Does not sound like fun to me.

Now that spain and poland are gone we could all just draw now if that is how people want to play it.
13 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: After France's tantrum, why would you allow him a share of the draw?
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: Not a prayer.
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: Holy shit England. Do you really think Turkey is going to draw? I can't believe you of all people is asking for a draw now.
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: Britain, my "Not a prayer" was in reference to Germany's question. I am still willing to draw once France is all gone. I am amazed at how badly you are being treated by your supposed suitors. Well, I say don't you listen to them. Play the game the way you want to! Screw conventional wisdom! Just like I told you, they are merely aiming to keep you down.
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: This drawsize scoring, which means that when we draw, it doesnt matter how many centers you have, the pot will be divided equally. But if someone has 33 centers then he wins all and the rest lose with zero points.
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: That is correct...
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: I know it is hard, but to prevent Turkey from winning is still possible.
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: That's the spirit!!!!

Let's give this resistance a spiffy name too, like the "Leftover League"!
14 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2002: As weird as it seems, best course of action is Britain to do nothing, France to hold a line, Egypt make a line at Lybia and sea. They are petty about one center or another, it really doesnt matter what you own, the result would be the same at the end. Which means is ok to Britain just hold and France not care to regain land, also egypt, your homeland is lost, last chance is to pull back to make a holding line. I hope that is clear, we are on our last turns, is up to you if you want a different ending. But if not, then is also ok. Whatever you all choose. GG
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Wow Turkey. You really want to win like this?
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Why don't y'all just create a neutral corridor for Britain to join the fight against Turkey instead of invading France? Is it that difficult to do? Let him get to Mediterranean, and Turkey will have one more front to fight in.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Egypt is already in the Mediterranean. That is not a new front for me.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Shame will not work, Egypt. I am a Diplomacy player, after all.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Oh, but you are not everywhere in the mediterranean. Any gap that the allies can fill in the front against you is an advantage. Your might will then be blocked because you won't be able to move easily any more.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Oh, Turkey, don't think too highly of yourself, the only reason why you are doing so well is chance; this is called statistics, I doubt if you can pull your current situation from any starting position. I am not going to buy that 'I am awesome player' statements easily, I am scientist whose training is to be skeptical of any statements and I have some knowledge of statistics and game theory.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: So, well done so far, I am curious if others will be able to pull a draw
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Yes you are a diplomacy player but there are all kinds of diplomacy players. Seems you are a vulture type. There isn't much honor or there shouldn't be much "feel good" in this victory.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: No, not much honor, I guess. But, I told you my reasons for why I will take the victory if it is available. I believe they are quite valid. And even if they are not, I am quite fine with that too.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Everyone look how conceded Turkey is...This was his response to me and how he had a hand in everything that took place this game...laughable.

"When Russia convinced Poland to attack Ukraine, I was invited along. I did so with my eye looking past Ukraine since I knew he could not last against the 2 of them. That left me in position to take the majority of Ukraine's SCs and the Balkans. That enabled me to push Poland and Russia.
When you looked to stab me back when, I convinced you to back off. Besides I had enough coverage that I would lose only 1 SC at worst. That would have bogged both of us down, so it was smart of you to back down then. Since you had those two units left there, I worked to ensure you never got more than 1 build per year when I could. That included delaying attacking France, etc.
When Russia form the "League of the North", I pestered England into not just sitting back and waiting for France and Russia to crush him once they consolidated against me. That provoked France's ire, rightfully, and predictably. Cue either rage attack or quit the game response.
I feel since I had a hand in the major turning points of the game, I certainly should take the win if it is presented to me."
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: If by copying this private conversation you hope to somehow indict Turkey, you've failed miserably. What did he do wrong? Hell, he came right out and told you what he did, why he did it, and what he thought would happen as a result of doing it.

While I personally don't like to play with or against people who are so brazenly dishonest, many players adopt such a sinister playstyle and are often rewarded. But to shame him for winning the way he did isn't your place: you made your choices and he made his; in this game, for whatever reason, his worked out better. Had France not gone from stabber to cry baby, you might have had a better chance of a draw, but sadly, Turkey correctly gauged France's immaturity and pressed the right buttons.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Well it was a nice game. Despite being of low stakes it had more action and debate than usual. I think you should simply relax, besides there are many variants, small maps, bigger ones, without talk option, public debate only, just seek what fits you. Just remember to have fun. And probably there is no luck in the gameplay, but there is luck with the kind of player you are gaming with. So more maturity for all. Well played and GG.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Nicely said Russia
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: What Russia said.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: To hollow victories!
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Here here!
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Be honest. Do you think we could have been this successful if not for a missed phase from Italy? I'm sorry, I refuse to believe a player can know how someone will react. I think we too often play the results and are hindsight geniuses. Eat some humble pie man!
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Egypt - you chastise Turkey for not playing (winning) in a manner of which you approve, but what about you: do you think the way you are playing (continually taking shots at Turkey's character) is any better? It seems the chef should eat some pie too . . .
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: I already told you I do not consider myself an "elite", great, or even all that good. I am a fair player, I think. Of course we play the results of each turn. But if you are not working on something for down the road, then that is why you are not winning. What you suggest is akin to playing poker, a game involving far more luck than Diplomacy, and just showing your hands and everyone bet accordingly. That is not what happens. People bluff, they chase cards, they overplay weak hands and even strong hands, they play cautiously and lose money, they feed other players false tells. Some are better than others. That is just the way it is. Just random luck, without the skill to manipulate other players, means all players should have the same win percentages. They don't.
You don't have to buy into what I am saying. I don't really care. I will, hopefully, if all the pieces fall into place just right, have another win.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Hey Turkey was able to take advantage of his situation as it unfolded for him. That the luck of this game.
At one point there was the call against France and Turkey who were both leading. Not much I could do against Turkey but France I could. Unfortunate that Egypt and Russia could not do more to slow down the Turkish hoard.

France rolling over and not fighting to the end is the self unhonorable way to play but so are those who NMR or just give up when they start to die.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Turkey-Didn't you say you would draw if France rolled over like he is?

Germany-I'm being forced to eat the loser pie and I'm throwing it in every direction.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Egypt, many things were said. Many of them, alas, were lies.
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: :)
14 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: all holds
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: So Turkey wins...make it a challenge

France just made the challenge harder by giving up but it is still a challenge.
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: What?!?! Britain?! Are you turning on me now? Why would you do that? You were giving me the win.
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: Never said I was supporting you
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: Oh, I just assumed by your actions...
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: England still doesnt understand how he gave the game away to you
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: Ok, I'll try to break it down for him:

Once one player, who has gotten to a decent size in a successful alliance, stabs his partner, he is in effect stating that he is going for a solo win. If everyone else, including the stabbed player, bands together to stop the threatened solo, any player not able to lend immediate aid should do NOTHING. At least until the threat is neutralized. Now, the fear that I whispered to you about Russia and France taking you out once I was down is still a valid fear. However, they wouldn't do that until I was contained. You should have just used the time to move units into position to prevent either from coming after you and wait for the draw. Not that I am complaining that you did exactly what I wanted you to do...
15 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2003: I just never really thought that you would.
17 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2003: France-You are a spiteful little bitch.
18 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2004: I now think it is safe for a postgame:

Italy and Spain, sorry I did not pay much attention to either of you too much. Italy a bit more, so - not great judged by early elimination, but honestly, those are 2 of the worst draws in this variant, in my opinion.

Germany, you gave up early, allowing France to grab 4 SCs uncontested really in one fell swoop. So, that sucks.

Ukraine, sorry, but the old one got handed a raw deal. Not much you can do when it is 3 on 1 at the onset. You tried, but it was a done deal. Sorry.

Poland, Russia's little lapdog. Rarely communicated, always followed Russia's lead. Bleh. Diplomacy - D, Tactics - B, Strategy - D

Russia, you were an enjoyable communicator. Sorry, I never meant to keep our deal, but you worked yourself into a spot I couldn't break out into. But, you also couldn't break out. Diplomacy - A (and extremely enjoyable), Tactics - B, Strategy - C

Egypt, Sorry I had to stab you as you were a good partner for a while. But, I play for wins first, not draws and I saw a chance for the solo. I would have preferred to wait another turn, but you play the hand you're dealt. You played well, and even covered your ass with those two irritating units. You just left too much space between them and your main force at a time when I got the builds I needed. Diplomacy - A, Tactics, A, Strategy - A

Britain, what were you thinking?!?! No, I get it, I am the one cheering you on, telling you they were all out to get you, etc. But that is not how you play this game. Looking at our two countries, no one in their right mind would think I was going to draw with them. Your only rational course would be with the "League of the North". You sit back, set up some defenses, possibly explain why you are going to take one or so SC from your stronger neighbors ("to balance things out and besides, those were useless units anyway in a draw"), and take the draw that they are going to give you. Or, barring that, wait until the chance they have me beat down, then hit one of them to cut down on the draw size. But don't just give me the win! Diplomacy - C, Tactics - C, Strategy - F

France, you pompous spoiled sport, you. "Elite player" my ass. You had the forces to hold or at least greatly hold back the line against me and to hold against Britain until you had convinced Egypt or Russia to help hold him in check. Total lack of diplomatic effort due to an inability to withhold rage attack. It could have been NMR with more or less the same results. It was predictable from our correspondence; the only reason I kept harassing Britain to attack you. I knew you could hold him off, but I was betting your pride wouldn't let you. You suck. Grow up. Diplomacy F, Tactics - A, Strategy - B, then F-

Other than France, good game guys!
20 Jul 16 UTC Wow. France is an elite player. It seems he has had this type of attitude in other games that don't go his way (20 civil disorders and 4 resigned).

Good game Turkey you bastard!

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Buzzle (1531 D)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 100 D
33 supply-centers, 31 units
svenubl (3350 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
11 supply-centers, 10 units
Survived. Bet: 10 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
wildwolf (1214 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Macchiavelli (2421 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
4 supply-centers, 5 units
Eadan (454 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Elinarius (562 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
sk6315 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Ibrahim (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
shizik (314 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
Tazo101 (121 D)Ukraine (Spring, 1998) with 1 centres.
jolive (0 D X)Italy (Autumn, 1994) with 3 centres.
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