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Finished: 02 AM Wed 29 Oct 14 UTC
Classic Anon.
16 hours /phase
Pot: 78 D - Autumn, 1906, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Polynoamial (253 D)
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: might as well
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: In a more specific form, I am asking the moderators how is it that France has moved exactly 3 units the entire game, and all 3 have helped the English. Paris to Brest to bounce the EC, then Paris to Brest to bounce MAO and Marseilles to Gas to block Spain's retreat. Those are ALL of France's moves. No communication to me regardless of my attempts at contact. Any one else able to communicate with France?
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: If this is on the up and up, then fine. But I smell a rat. England, if you are on the up an up, allow a pause while the moderators check it out.
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: he hasnt been friendly to me...
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: I don't see why you think these moves help me. How is bouncing in Brest helpful to me? The same thing could have been accomplished by just holding in MAO. It seems to me like every move France has done has been to try and get Brest back.
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: impossibe for him to get brest back. helps your unit remain where it is (good for your positioning) while ensuring I cannot take it. if concern were about keeping or regaining SCs, why leave Marseilles? That move only blocks me from entering Gas for a coordinated fall move.
no matter. mods will check, and if all's good then all's good. care to pause while they do?
22 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1904: I don't know if my side of the story is wanted or relevant, but in my defense, Germany hasn't actually tried to contact me since I joined the game (the original France dropped out). I haven't played this game in a while so I'm out of practice, and combined with the fact that I joined in such a miserable position, I haven't really been paying full attention to how my moves affect the whole board. Sorry if I've messed anything up.
22 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: In fact, nobody has tried to contact me (I don't know why Turkey thinks I have been unfriendly). If it makes things easier I could leave the game. I'll even agree to never play another game with the current England player. I'd just rather not be banned for playing poorly.
22 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: You're not going to get banned. I don't think Germany realized you took over for the previous France player. Nobody tried to contact you because the previous France hadn't responded to anyone the entire game.
22 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: youre a new france... that explains a lot
22 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Except for the parts that make no sense... Such as the following game notifications:

Classic Anon.
Fri 17 Oct
France has gone into civil disorder.
Classic Anon.
Thu 16 Oct
Game progressed to Diplomacy, Autumn, 1902
Cats Eat Furry Trampolines
Wed 15 Oct
Germany was defeated.
Classic Anon.
Wed 15 Oct
Game progressed to Diplomacy, Spring, 1902
Realpolitik IV
Wed 15 Oct
Game progressed to Diplomacy, Autumn, 1905
Classic Anon.
Wed 15 Oct
Someone has taken over France.

Check out the dates. Someone took over for France on 15 Oct and then on 17 Oct France goes CD. Also, the move to open Marseilles when there are 2 units that could move into it (one of which (Italy's Gulf of Lyon unit) currently did not occupy an SC) was a bit odd if you wanted to just keep or get your SCs. Sure, that could be poor play, but it sure worked out well for England. Speaking of England, how could you promise not to play another game with that player since this is an anonymous game? Just curious.
Moderators are checking the logs to see what is up and should get back to us shortly. I would just hate to lose a game to someone that subsequently becomes banned. It has happened several times in the past, where the winner gets banned, but everyone else who played fairly still does not get the points that the cheater "won". I am NOT saying that England or France is cheating, btw. But there is enough suspicious behavior that having a Moderator check is warranted.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: worst case if the games pauses then there is a cheater, maybe someone who isnt even france or england. also, the best case scenario is we just delayed the game a tad. he isnt asking for a cancel or draw he just wants to check for cheating
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Exactly. Nothing changes if there is no cheating. If there is, then the remaining countries can vote for a draw.
Really, the only people that could possibly refuse to pause for this check up are those that are guilty.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I just think it's a waste of time. France may have played poorly but that's not collusion. Sorry.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: ...not really. As far as I'm concerned, it's clearly not collusion, so why would I waste my time pausing?
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I am confused by how it is "clearly not collusion". Care to elaborate?
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: that said, im not sure france ever put in orders until new france came. france #1 CDed but new france might be englnd idk for sure but a little wasted time is fine by me
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I am still confused about how "someone joined as France" 2 days BEFORE France went CD. Then France made very limited number of moves that all benefited England in subtle and not so subtle ways.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: France went CD on Oct. 15, later that same day (Oct. 15) a new player took over France.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I don't see how you think France's moves benefited me. Paris -> Brest is the only logical move, and doesn't benefit me, so the only move you could be talking about is Marseilles -> Gascony, and that doesn't benefit me. Personally I would have been quite happy with France staying in Marseilles. Does it cut off your retreat? Sure, but you would have had to disband a unit anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I'm not even sure I understand the issue here. France made no moves until Autumn 1903 (Par->Bre), in fact Germany supported Mar against Italy in Spring 1903, then in Spring 1904 France moved Par->Bre (failed) and Mar to Gas, presumably so he could attempt to take Bre back. Meanwhile Italy took a vacant Mar. France didn't enter any orders for last turn (Autumn 1904). So the only one who benefited from Frances moves has been Italy (he got Mar).

What move(s) do you claim are suspicious and helped England? I don't see any overt moves by him, nor do I even see any moves you made against England which France somehow blocked.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: im willing to give germany the benefit of the doubt though, looking at it as the game progresses france put up little fight when he was playin
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: The original France never entered any orders. the "new" France has only been here for 3 moves (Autumn 1903, Spring 1904 and Autumn 1904). Looking at his moves they seem reasonable, he tried to get Brest back with Paris (it was unoccupied), that failed so he moved Marseilles to Gas (presumably) to provide support for Paris to move into Brest - he didn't enter any orders for Autumn 1904, probably because he had been accused of collusion.

So, no Germany shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. He should have raised his concerns in 1901 or 1902 and we could have paused the game until we found someone. It seems to me, unless I am missing something, that Germany is just upset that he lost a SC and couldn't retreat. Which is just as much Italy's fault as France. If he can point to specific moves which blunted him, I'm all ears (or eyes if you will ;) )
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: russia, the move from marseilles to gascony makes less sense than a move to spain, anyways, your last sentence of your 1st paragraph is what gets me. ive been accused of cheating but what i do is ignore it and keep fighting. france now has missed a CONVENIENT phase and whether or not the original france was cheating i dont know but the latest moves seem sketchy to me.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: it all seems a bit convenient and good for england, especially since france was quiet for the majority of the game (1st and 2nd france)
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: that has reasonable doubt
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Germany had an army in Spain so France couldn't have moved there. Unless you're talking about the first moves (1901)?

There was no one playing France from the get go, they missed the first move! I even commented on it at the time (in global) because it really gives Germany and England an advantage since they can pick the bones dry.

As for France not entering any moves last turn, I think it is pretty clear from his "~Wed 10 AM" post he was pretty freaked out by the accusation. I don't think I can blame him for bolting from the game.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: sorry when i said spain i meant burgundy in 1903->1904, but even the wed 10 am comment could be england saying that and the only way to verify that is to ask the mods. secondly, when in say the 1st france england could of had a player account made, joined his own game, then left it when he saw that he could take it easily.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: So the accusation seems to be that because I somehow benefited from France's moves (which I don't think is true at all by the way), that therefore I'm suspected of controlling his account. But if that's the reason, then why aren't you accusing Italy of controlling the account? He wouldn't have gotten Marseilles unless France walked out of it. I'm not accusing Italy of cheating. My point is that the accusation against me isn't due to suspicious behavior, but more likely because Germany is upset that I attacked him.

In any case, I don't want this to turn into a diplomatic meta-game. I received an email from the mods saying they received a complaint and will investigate it. If they deem it necessary, I'm sure they'll pause the game on their own. It's not like this game will end in the next 24 hours, so there's no need for us to pause it.
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: 1. i was not aware either of you had contacted the mods
2. germany was worried that he would be dead after someone was revealed as cheating so pausing it would be the logical if he wanted to play the game without it being a waste of HIS time
3. i said earlier that this game was very weird and also that it may not necessarily be england controlling france
23 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: England, this is the only time I have ever contacted a moderator over a game. If I did every time someone attacked me after saying they wouldn't, I would be constantly contacting them ;) Seriously, I am not mad that you attacked me. It is a game.
This one just happens to have unfolded very oddly...
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: "Dear WebDiplomacy user,

Thank you for your prompt response. I have completed my investigation and deemed there to be nothing malicious in your game(s). Please continue to enjoy our site fairly.

-WebDiplomacy Moderator"
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: i am happy with this, no cheating is better than cheating im happy for this being resolved. Better safe then sorry although I stand by the fact that a draw would not have been too bad of an option
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: *pause* not draw sorry
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Maybe I should just let it be, but I'm curious as to what the benefit would have been for France to move into Bur? By moving to Gas he then has 2 units to try and take back Brest. Moving to Bur gives him, well nothing.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: munich paris marseilles and belgium
spain marseilles brest paris

the difference is spain was covered while munich was open and belgium a possibility
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: The odds of getting Mun or Bel with 1 unit was much lower then getting Brest with 2 units. England was in Belgium at that time so there was no chance there. Also Germany had Armies in Tyr and Kie. As soon as someone moved to Bur, Germany would have moved one of them in to protect Mun (which is what he did when England moved into Bur)

The sad thing is that at this point we've either chased off this new France player or he will probably never join an "in progress" game again. which is to bad, imho.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Yeah. This is my first game on this site too and getting investigated for cheating was not a great welcome.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I apologize to anyone with hurt feelings. Honestly, not my intent. I have just been on the receiving end of games that ended and then there was found out that the winner was a cheater. This time I felt I should ask for an investigation. Seriously, put aside your biases, put yourself in my place and look at the moves.
I really have no malice toward England. (Ok, in game terms, I do, but that is different.) This is one of the problems with Anonymous games - you do not know who you are playing. My profile will show that I am a good player and I can take my losses just fine, as long as they are fair.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Also, Russia, France never made a move toward Burgundy. Check the moves.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: Indeed, anyone that doubts my motives should pretend they are Germany, they were just stabbed by England, and check the moves from France and England. I am glad there was no cheating, but the moves should raise suspicions, in my opinion.
24 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1904: I know he didn't move towards Bur, Turkey mentioned that he felt France should have moved to Bur instead of Gas, hence the reason for my comment.

I asked earlier, what specific move(s) by France caused an issue for you? I just don't see anything that directly affected you and (to me) the only beneficiary of Frances moves was Italy (he took Mar).

At this point the mods have said there was no cheating, lets just leave it at that and move forward.
25 Oct 14 UTC Spring, 1905: So after all that Germany misses the turn?! *gah*
26 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: WTH - How did Germany go into CD so quickly?

and now Turkey had gone MIA?

I propose we just cancel or draw the game, this is just silly now
26 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: sorry for that i lost all internet and couldnt get on for a while
26 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: I hardly think England is in a position to do that, considering his successful diplomacy. He's done well
26 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Yeah I think I gotta try for the solo win at this point.
26 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: well, I'll move my armies out of the way.
27 Oct 14 UTC Autumn, 1905: Good response to my proposed alliance, Russia - lol
27 Oct 14 UTC Good game all!

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Polynoamial (253 D)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 42 D
18 supply-centers, 14 units
MagicLantern (102 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
JamesYanik (548 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 14 D
6 supply-centers, 5 units
77thinfantry (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 7 D
3 supply-centers, 4 units
A.Kirkland (101 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 3 D
1 supply-centers, 3 units
CDangerB (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 8 D
Buzzle (1531 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Civil Disorders
Buzzle (1531 D)Germany (Spring, 1905) with 5 centres.
fenwaj (100 D)France (Autumn, 1901) with 3 centres.
CDangerB (100 D)France (Autumn, 1905) with 0 centres.
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